water in steering gearbox

esbrian

Member
This summer I foolishly left my 850 outside through several heavy downpours. My recently-rebuilt steering box overflowed gear oil after the rain, which tells me that I've got a puddle in the bottom of my gearbox now.

Is there any way I can get to the bottom of the box to pull the water out without pulling the gearbox from the tranny case and cleaning it out? I tried snaking a small plastic tube through the fill port on top and pulling the water out with a mity-vac, but I couldn't seem to get to the bottom. I've just evacuated a bunch of gear oil so far...
 
How did water get in steering box, bad seal at the top of the gearbox I assume.

Might try placing a thin oil in gear box that would be easy to pump out with your suction pump.

Fill the gear box with oil, then give the tractor a good workout turning the front wheels back and forth many times, hopefully this action would
throughly mix the new oil and water in the gearbox.
Then immediately suck the oil out of the gearbox, you may have to do this a few times, but if you pour the fluid you sucked out into a clear
container and you find clear separation of oil and water you may have a winner.

I would think doing this few times would get most of the water out, might be worth a try,
Pulling that gearbox is a pain I have heard, still need to stop water from getting into the gearbox.
 

Your 850 was designed and built to give many years of reliable service whether stored inside or out. You should check the seal at the top of the tube.
 
I see 3 options:
1. Pull sector, turn it up side down and let it drain for a few days thru the top steering shaft. Refill with proper lube.
2. Pull sector, drill a hole directly under the lower bearing in the bottom of the sector, drain for a few days. Thread hole for 1/8 or 1/4 inch pipe plug, insert plug and refill with appropriate lube.
3. With sector still in place on tractor, remove side shaft, thoroughly clean out water, reassemble and refill with proper lube.
Jim
 
if it was me, i'd make sure i had the right steer whel and seal, and then i'd syphon out as much oil as I could, then add in a pint of 90% rubbing alcohol, and then top off with diesel.. then jackt he front up and exercise your arms running the sectors lock to lock for 5 minutes... then I'd syphone out as much of that as I could get them refill with 85/140 or #0 or #00 grease and go...

You will get most of the water out with the alcohol/diesel mixture. the rest will just thin your lube a hair.. might get a weeping sector seal on a hot day.. but should go away..
 

Thanks guys for the advice. I figure that I must either have missed or improperly installed a component when I had it apart a couple years back. I'll try to remember to snap a picture before I head out in the morning of the top of the column. It looks to me like there's the potential for water to collect under the steering wheel and slowly drain/seep down the column. Maybe there's just a trim piece missing...

There must be a good deal of water in there. Just pulling the fill plug on top of the box drained about a half a cup of oil, and I filled it before reassembly so the oil was originally at or below the level of the plug. When I brought it in out of the rain this summer there was quite a bit of oil that had already pushed out onto the transmission case and the ground below, so I wouldn't be surprised if I've got a cup or more of water to remove.

Pulling the gearbox is definitely a pain. It really doesn't take THAT long, but it kills me to take the tractor that far apart and not take on other work that ought to be done while I'm in there. Plus, removing/reinstalling the dash is one of my least favorite things to do, period.
 
I was frustrated by the difficulty of snaking the vacuum tube into the fill hole with the dash and hood still on, and I didn't think I was getting the tube far enough down to do a half-decent job removing the water, even with a few dilutions as suggested by Soundguy. I was able to pull the rear (left) sector shaft after popping the steering arm off (much easier this time than when I did the rebuild). When I pulled the shaft out (attached to its cover) LOTS of water poured out. I would guess there was at least half an inch, maybe more, of water in the bottom. Surprisingly there was very little oil left, so I must have snaked the suction tube down pretty close to the water level when I attempted to siphon it a few weeks ago.

After sopping up all the water and oil that I could reach from the sector shaft opening, I poured about half a bottle of rubbing alcohol through the fill hole in 3 or 4 pours. I think that the low point in the box is at the front near the lower thrust bearing, so I was trying to dilute that standing water (that I couldn't see or reach due to the right sector shaft) with alcohol so I could dry the box out prior to refilling with oil. Each time I rinsed with alcohol I stopped when it was about to flow out the sector shaft opening, swirled it around with my fingers, and soaked it up using paper towels. After the last rinse I left a heat lamp and small electric space heater aimed at the gearbox for a couple of hours to finish drying it out.

Assuming that I actually got all the water out, this is a much faster method than pulling the whole gearbox to get things dried out. Even if it isn't perfect, at least now I can move snow...

As for how the water got into the gearbox in the first place, here's a photo of the top of the column, where I think it's getting in. Does this look normal? It seems to me that rain can find its way in, but is there (supposed to be) a seal at the top of the column that should be preventing this?
31513.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 18:11:53 01/01/16) I was frustrated by the difficulty of snaking the vacuum tube into the fill hole with the dash and hood still on, and I didn't think I was getting the tube far enough down to do a half-decent job removing the water, even with a few dilutions as suggested by Soundguy. I was able to pull the rear (left) sector shaft after popping the steering arm off (much easier this time than when I did the rebuild). When I pulled the shaft out (attached to its cover) LOTS of water poured out. I would guess there was at least half an inch, maybe more, of water in the bottom. Surprisingly there was very little oil left, so I must have snaked the suction tube down pretty close to the water level when I attempted to siphon it a few weeks ago.

After sopping up all the water and oil that I could reach from the sector shaft opening, I poured about half a bottle of rubbing alcohol through the fill hole in 3 or 4 pours. I think that the low point in the box is at the front near the lower thrust bearing, so I was trying to dilute that standing water (that I couldn't see or reach due to the right sector shaft) with alcohol so I could dry the box out prior to refilling with oil. Each time I rinsed with alcohol I stopped when it was about to flow out the sector shaft opening, swirled it around with my fingers, and soaked it up using paper towels. After the last rinse I left a heat lamp and small electric space heater aimed at the gearbox for a couple of hours to finish drying it out.

Assuming that I actually got all the water out, this is a much faster method than pulling the whole gearbox to get things dried out. Even if it isn't perfect, at least now I can move snow...

As for how the water got into the gearbox in the first place, here's a photo of the top of the column, where I think it's getting in. Does this look normal? It seems to me that rain can find its way in, but is there (supposed to be) a seal at the top of the column that should be preventing this?
31513.jpg

You need to put a Ford steering wheel on there. It will come down OVER the tube closing it off.
 
(quoted from post at 08:20:47 01/02/16)
You need to put a Ford steering wheel on there. It will come down OVER the tube closing it off.

It's that simple? Is this an aftermarket part shown in my pic? I was thinking maybe the plastic in the center was torched off at some point during a previous attempt to remove the wheel.

As far as getting a ford part,would my CNH dealer be able to get that or is it only available in the used market?

Thanks,

Brian
 
(quoted from post at 07:50:43 01/03/16)
(quoted from post at 08:20:47 01/02/16)
You need to put a Ford steering wheel on there. It will come down OVER the tube closing it off.

It's that simple? Is this an aftermarket part shown in my pic? I was thinking maybe the plastic in the center was torched off at some point during a previous attempt to remove the wheel.

As far as getting a ford part,would my CNH dealer be able to get that or is it only available in the used market?

Thanks,

Brian

Ford Tractor part has them $27.89
 
640 steering box sloppy. Since I already had it in the shop for an engine overhaul, I pulled the steering box to repair the looseness.
When I bought the tractor last year, the box was a cup and a half low on oil. There is no sign that water got it. The steering wheel goes up and down a little when you turn the wheel. Everything inside looks good. The output seals still have life so it must have been gone through before. The upper thrust bearing has a little pitting.
Anyway, getting a few small parts shouldn't be a problem but I was wondering how it goes back together. It seems like you could easily get this thing out of time. My Ford 1955-1960 tractor shop manual only shows power steering and tricycle steering boxes.

Anyone ever set up the timing of the gears?
 

Original poster here... Well, I got busy with work and parenting and everything else, and just got around to taking Showcrop's advice, 5 years later...

I purchased the OEM style steering wheel from this site, link below:

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/Ford-800_Steering-Wheel_8N3600OE.html

It arrived this week, and it does not appear to come down over the top of the steering shaft tube as I was hoping. Is this the correct part? I have to once again remove water from my gearbox this winter, and I would like for this to be the last time...
 
(quoted from post at 08:55:37 12/12/21)
Original poster here... Well, I got busy with work and parenting and everything else, and just got around to taking Showcrop's advice, 5 years later...

I purchased the OEM style steering wheel from this site, link below:

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/Ford-800_Steering-Wheel_8N3600OE.html

It arrived this week, and it does not appear to come down over the top of the steering shaft tube as I was hoping. Is this the correct part? I have to once again remove water from my gearbox this winter, and I would like for this to be the last time...


I went out and looked at one of mine in order to verify again that it does come down over. It does, so I looked the steering wheel up on the CNH parts pages. It shows it available and on hand for $97.00. So, it appears that what you got is a "fits them all" repop. I have a spare that I could send you a couple pics of.
 
(quoted from post at 13:30:49 12/12/21)
(quoted from post at 08:55:37 12/12/21)
Original poster here... Well, I got busy with work and parenting and everything else, and just got around to taking Showcrop's advice, 5 years later...

I purchased the OEM style steering wheel from this site, link below:

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/Ford-800_Steering-Wheel_8N3600OE.html

It arrived this week, and it does not appear to come down over the top of the steering shaft tube as I was hoping. Is this the correct part? I have to once again remove water from my gearbox this winter, and I would like for this to be the last time...


I went out and looked at one of mine in order to verify again that it does come down over. It does, so I looked the steering wheel up on the CNH parts pages. It shows it available and on hand for $97.00. So, it appears that what you got is a "fits them all" repop. I have a spare that I could send you a couple pics of.

Showcrop, is this a spare you'd be willing to part with or just as a visual aid in my search? If you are offering it for sale i am interested for sure.
 
I believe Dennis Carpenter will have the correct one. I remember making that mistake and buying the "cheap" version without realizing the difference. Bought one from Dennis (p/n 8N-3600) and it had the shroud (for lack of a better term) that created an umbrella over the steering tube.
 
Thanks Graham, I'm kicking myself for not confirming that the part I ordered was correct, but I assumed that I was on the right track based on the 8n3600 part number.... cleaned out the steering box this evening, letting it dry out with a heat lamp and will reassemble and grease or oil tomorrow.

Since discovering that the top of the tube allows rain in, back in 2015, I have covered the wheel with a bungeed trash can lid whenever parked outside, but the rain comes in sideways up here more often than not. I have a bad habit of filling the center bay of the barn with miscellaneous tools and parts during the summer, so the tractor generally stays outside from May through October. This property has tested me and found me lacking more times than I'd care to admit!

edit: I am waiting to hear back from user Showcrop regarding a potential spare steering wheel, but have emailed Dennis Carpenter to confirm that the 8n-3600 wheel on his site is correct.

This post was edited by esbrian on 12/12/2021 at 04:22 pm.
 
(quoted from post at 17:10:02 12/12/21) Thanks Graham, I'm kicking myself for not confirming that the part I ordered was correct, but I assumed that I was on the right track based on the 8n3600 part number.... cleaned out the steering box this evening, letting it dry out with a heat lamp and will reassemble and grease or oil tomorrow.

Since discovering that the top of the tube allows rain in, back in 2015, I have covered the wheel with a bungeed trash can lid whenever parked outside, but the rain comes in sideways up here more often than not. I have a bad habit of filling the center bay of the barn with miscellaneous tools and parts during the summer, so the tractor generally stays outside from May through October. This property has tested me and found me lacking more times than I'd care to admit!

edit: I am waiting to hear back from user Showcrop regarding a potential spare steering wheel, but have emailed Dennis Carpenter to confirm that the 8n-3600 wheel on his site is correct.

This post was edited by esbrian on 12/12/2021 at 04:22 pm.



Brian, I have pics, how would you like them sent?
 
Yesterday's Tractor Forums

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top