WD45 electronic ignition

[Elliott22]

I’m off all next week so I will be able to check into it more and hopefully figure something out for him. Kinda of a pain in the butt working on something that someone else worked on and won’t get back with me or my father in-law about anything he looked into or why replaced what he did. Really appreciate all the help from everyone on this site!! I am in no means a mechanic but trying to help out my father in-law

 

[JMOR]

Never answered: "Did you make any attempt to ID the module?" Number, markings for Ignitor II, or?

 

[Elliott22]

Sorry but not for sure what you mean by ID module

 

[Janicholson]

I think JMOR is wondering if you had the model/serial numbers from the Pertronic parts, sllowing you to discuss it with the manufacturer. (guess) Jim

 

[Elliott22]

Gotcha. I have not talked to the manufacture. Only sent it back to Steiner and they told me it is still good

 

[olddavid]

Gotcha. I have not talked to the manufacture. Only sent it back to Steiner and they told me it is still good

How do they check it and if it is left on a test station does it fail after a time. Would they have seen it was working for a few seconds and called it good? It seems to run for a while before quitting. I'm not saying it isn't good but........ Is there spark after it dies? You said the gas flow was good. If you can change it back to points for a time you could eliminate the module once and for all. And you are right, a random element here is that someone else did the install.

 

[wore out]

How do they check it and if it is left on a test station does it fail after a time. Would they have seen it was working for a few seconds and called it good? It seems to run for a while before quitting. I'm not saying it isn't good but........ Is there spark after it dies? You said the gas flow was good. If you can change it back to points for a time you could eliminate the module once and for all. And you are right, a random element here is that someone else did the install.

I'm gonna call "FOUL" on the likelyhood that a junquetronix reseller has the means and trained personnel to adequately test an EI module.

If someone can show otherwise I'll gladly "eat crow"

I find it AMUSING that there are FAR more posts on here from folks trying to get an "UPGRADE" EI system working vs. plain 'ol breaker points!

How is that an "UPGRADE"?

 

[Elliott22]

I'm gonna call "FOUL" on the likelyhood that a junquetronix reseller has the means and trained personnel to adequately test an EI module.

If someone can show otherwise I'll gladly "eat crow"

I find it AMUSING that there are FAR more posts on here from folks trying to get an "UPGRADE" EI system working vs. plain 'ol breaker points!

How is that an "UPGRADE"?

From Steiner

 

[JMOR]

Sorry but not for sure what you mean by ID module

I don't see the skills necessary to trouble shoot this problem, sorry.

 

[Elliott22]

I don't see the skills necessary to trouble shoot this problem, sorry.

You got that right lol

 

[JMOR]

Look like either of these & /or number?

 

[Elliott22]

This is what it looks like

 

[DanielW]

I'm echoing what others have said, but why not just put a new set of points and condenser in and eliminate all the variables associated with the electronic kit? If you want to install one in the future, go for it. But there are a lot of factors that come into play with an electronic kit that don't with a points/condenser system: Varying voltage, wrong plugs, wrong plug wire core type, wrong coil, requirement of a ballast resistor (or lack thereof), play in dizzy bushing making the flag prox too far from the module, etc. While some of these factors also influence points/condenser, it will usually run (or spark) in at least some capacity with a points/condenser system, even if it's not perfect. Whereas if any of these factors go wrong with an electronic kit, you've got nothing, and no real idea where to start looking. Throw a set of points/condenser back in, and just make sure you scrub off the coating on a new set of points. (New points these days come with an anti-oxide coating on the contacts that often requires a light stroke with a points file or fine emery to clean off - the old paper bag or dollar bill trick doesn't work; the coating they put on is too tough).

I personally just don't get the appeal of electronic kits on an old tractor. For a high-reving, performance engine where perfect dwell time and exact spark timing are absolutely critical, sure. But there's no advantage for an old, slow-reving tractor. Every week there's another thread on here about how to diagnose a bad electronic ignition. Yes, condensers can sometimes fail and points can oxidize, but very, very seldom. And it's only a few $$ to replace them and you're back running for another several years.

I can rhyme off 11 tractors and vehicles I have with points/condenser systems (and am probably forgetting some). All of them are working dandy, none of them having been touched in the last few years. I've only had one points system fail on me: The condenser in a Cockshutt 540 (which was bad when the tractor was purchased). Swapped it out for a used Triumph condenser we had on the shelf and it's been running great ever since.

Contrast that to the only two electronic ignition kits I've dealt with: A Pertronix kit for a Ford 2N that was bad and returned out of the box, and a kit for an old Fiat Spyder convertible that failed on the road. Swapped the one in the Fiat out for the points & condenser which I (thankfully) had in the glovebox and it's been running fine ever since.

In my experience, the folks who advocate for electronic ignition kits are usually the worst and laziest mechanics, who can't gap a set of points nor diagnose an ignition system properly. They want something they can drop in and never touch again. Unfortunately, the aftermarket kits are often quite the opposite. And it's pretty easy to diagnose a bad points/condenser system. Diagnosing a bad ignition module is conversely a much more difficult task, as there are so many other factors at play.

 

[JMOR]

Finally enough info to determine that it is the type II, which Pertronix says must use noise suppression plug wires or module damage may result. Does this unit have noise suppression wires installed?

 

[DanielW]

I'm echoing what others have said, but why not just put a new set of points and condenser in and eliminate all the variables associated with the electronic kit? If you want to install one in the future, go for it. But there are a lot of factors that come into play with an electronic kit that don't with a points/condenser system: Varying voltage, wrong plugs, wrong plug wire core type, wrong coil, requirement of a ballast resistor (or lack thereof), play in dizzy bushing making the flag prox too far from the module, etc. While some of these factors also influence points/condenser, it will usually run (or spark) in at least some capacity with a points/condenser system, even if it's not perfect. Whereas if any of these factors go wrong with an electronic kit, you've got nothing, and no real idea where to start looking. Throw a set of points/condenser back in, and just make sure you scrub off the coating on a new set of points. (New points these days come with an anti-oxide coating on the contacts that often requires a light stroke with a points file for fine emery to clean off - the old paper bag or dollar bill trick doesn't work; the coating they put on is too tough).

I personally just don't get the appeal of electronic kits on an old tractor. For a high-reving, performance engine where perfect dwell time and exact spark timing are absolutely critical, sure. But there's no advantage for an old, slow-reving tractor. Every week there's another thread on here about how to diagnose a bad electronic ignition. Yes, condensers can sometimes fail and points can oxidize, but very, very seldom. And it's only a few $$ to replace them and you're back running for another several years.

I can rhyme off 11 tractors and vehicles I have with points/condenser systems (and am probably forgetting some). All of them are working dandy, none of them having been touched in the last few years. I've only had one points system fail on me: The condenser in a Cockshutt 540 (which was bad when the tractor was purchased). Swapped it out for a used Triumph condenser we had on the shelf and it's been running great ever since.

Contrast that to the only two electronic ignition kits I've dealt with: A Pertronix kit for a Ford 2N that was bad and returned out of the box, and a kit for an old Fiat Spyder convertible that failed on the road. Swapped the one in the Fiat out for the points & condenser which I (thankfully) had in the glovebox and it's been running fine ever since.

In my experience, the folks who advocate for electronic ignition kits are usually the worst and laziest mechanics, who can't gap a set of points nor diagnose an ignition system properly. They want something they can drop in and never touch again. Unfortunately, the aftermarket kits are often quite the opposite. And it's pretty easy to diagnose a bad points/condenser system. Diagnosing a bad ignition module is conversely a much more difficult task, as there are so many other factors at play.

I also don't see anywhere where you've actually tested spark. That'd be step #1. Next time it dies (or if it doesn't start) do a spark test. I'd still bet dollars to buttons its a fuel issue. Although I've heard of coils and ignitions that go bad when hot and are fine when cooled down, I've never had it happen in all my years fooling with old equipment. It's either bad right from the get-go, or fine. The fact that two electronic ignitions have had the same problem of running for a while and then dying would seem pretty indicative that the problem is elsewhere. It's sometimes pretty hard to diagnose a blockage in the tank: There may be some crapulence floating around in there that doesn't cause any grief until it's been run a while and then it gets drawn over the tank outlet. Had that in a W6 that drove me nuts for a while: Very steady stream of fuel coming out whenever the carb plug was pulled. Finally let it drain from the carb for 2-3 minutes and it suddenly stopped when the port was blocked.

 

[Elliott22]

I also don't see anywhere where you've actually tested spark. That'd be step #1. Next time it dies (or if it doesn't start) do a spark test. I'd still bet dollars to buttons its a fuel issue. Although I've heard of coils and ignitions that go bad when hot and are fine when cooled down, I've never had it happen in all my years fooling with old equipment. It's either bad right from the get-go, or fine. The fact that two electronic ignitions have had the same problem of running for a while and then dying would seem pretty indicative that the problem is elsewhere. It's sometimes pretty hard to diagnose a blockage in the tank: There may be some crapulence floating around in there that doesn't cause any grief until it's been run a while and then it gets drawn over the tank outlet. Had that in a W6 that drove me nuts for a while: Very steady stream of fuel coming out whenever the carb plug was pulled. Finally let it drain from the carb for 2-3 minutes and it suddenly stopped when the port was blocked.

I tested for spark the first time it died on my father in law and it had no spark. That why i tried the new module.

 

[JMOR]

What about the suppression wires. Yes or not?

 

[Elliott22]

Finally enough info to determine that it is the type II, which Pertronix says must use noise suppression plug wires or module damage may result. Does this unit have noise suppression wires installed?

I’ve got graphite style plug wires to be delivered to my father in-law Saturday so he can put them on

 

[Elliott22]

What about the suppression wires. Yes or

 

[Elliott22]

These are the wires I ordered. This is what Steiner said I had to use