WD45 pump/PTO issues

[Mike Volpp]

Our 1955 WD 45, that my son uses on his small farm, has developed a couple new unfamiliar issues lately that I have yet to unearth all the
mysteries of before taking things apart. The PTO has developed a persistent ticking from the area of the gearbox that sounds ominous and
is, I've recently learned, complicated by the leaking hydraulic pump creating an overfill situation in the transmission. While I've
learned in general that a leaking hydraulic system seal (or seals) is the overfill culprit, I'd like to clarify specifically the likeliest
one. My ITT manual and WD 45 operating manual/parts list aren't up to the task, nor are online illustrations and pix that I've so far come
across. Having never been inside the torque housing, I assume the curved intake tube exiting the inside bottom of the pump fits in the
hydraulic reservoir at the bottom of the torque housing through a press-in seal. If that assumption is correct, before we pull the PTO
gearbox for inspection, the overfill situation needs remedied with a new seal(s). But where, exactly?
Thanks in advance for help from y'all.
Mike V.

 

[DrAllis]

Hydraulic oil overfilling the transmission is generally the double seal on the rear of the clutch shaft leaking, inside the torque housing, just ahead of the hand clutch and top PTO gear that the hand clutch bolts to. Requires removal of the torque housing from the tractor I believe.

 

[Mike Volpp]

Thanks, that does clarify the situation for me - I was way out in left field with regard to the hydraulic reservoir and pump pickup tube. It
all became crystal clear when I re-watched a good you-tube video of seal restoration in a WD and finally realized the relationship between
front and rear chambers of the torque housing; also that the illustration on p. 52 of the parts illustrations shows only one seal. Now for
the fun part!

 

[VicS]

Dr.. Allis is the man. But I would just fill everything with the best hyd tractor fluid and let it all go together. That's what I did on my D17 I pull.

 

[DrAllis]

(quoted from post at 10:04:44 10/30/23) Dr.. Allis is the man. But I would just fill everything with the best hyd tractor fluid and let it all go together. That's what I did on my D17 I pull.

**** On old D-14-15-17's that I have had a problem with hydraulic oil running into the Power Director clutch/PTO gears area, I would plug the dipstick vent to that compartment, refill with oil just to the "add" mark, and tell the customer to just keep an eye on it, as it shouldn't gain much if any with the vent plugged. This has worked pretty well and most of these old tractors were limited use anyway. The WD-series hydraulic sump oil level is also higher than the transmission oil area, so, yes you could just use Hy-Tran oil in both and let the hydraulic oil sump keep leaking into the tranny compartment. BUT, the tranny will become overfull and you could have unintended axle seal leaks and other leaks because of the much higher oil level. Can't seal this area up to prevent oil from coming in like I can on the D-series. Good luck and you'd think oil seals would last longer than 50 or 60 years, wouldn't you ??

 

[Mike Volpp]

Not the first comment I've heard to that effect, and worthy of consideration, especially when looking at the logistics of getting to the middle of that torque housing under the proverbial barnyard tree!

 

[DrAllis]

You still have the "ticking" PTO gear to deal with. Dropping the PTO box down and off may be as far as you need to go. Or, you might have to pull the hydraulic pump off to access the intermediate gears, OR you might have to split the tractor to replace the top main drive gear. You're not done just yet.

 

[Mike Volpp]

Thanks, DrA, for your followup comments, especially since they address my next question. That being, is it accurate to say that leaking from
the higher pump reservoir to the transmission would stop and stabilize once both levels were equal? And if so, would there be adequate
hydraulic fluid for the pump, even if it were lower than optimal? Especially if every chamber was filled with HyTran in case fluid movement
goes both ways?

Agreed that the clicking PTO gear remains an issue. I figured the hydraulic leak issue took precedence and wasn't likely to relate to the
PTO issue at all.

 

[DrAllis]

(quoted from post at 10:32:28 11/01/23) Thanks, DrA, for your followup comments, especially since they address my next question. That being, is it accurate to say that leaking from
the higher pump reservoir to the transmission would stop and stabilize once both levels were equal? And if so, would there be adequate
hydraulic fluid for the pump, even if it were lower than optimal? Especially if every chamber was filled with HyTran in case fluid movement
goes both ways?


Agreed that the clicking PTO gear remains an issue. I figured the hydraulic leak issue took precedence and wasn't likely to relate to the
PTO issue at all.

As long as there is hyd oil on the dipstick to make the hydraulic pump work, the pump will work. yes, in theory when the tranny oil level gets up high enough, no more oil loss thru transfer will occur.

 

[Mike Volpp]

Thanks again - and enjoyed your comment about longevity of those seals. Maybe the old designers suspected those would be way down the list
of things regularly inspected.

 

[Mike Volpp]

I wouldn't have guessed it'd be this long before having more info on the PTO gearbox, but the picture reveals plenty. All those pieces were retrieved from the bottom of the gearbox - top ones when we drained the oil, the bottom 4 after the gearbox was removed. Except for the gear tooth at very bottom, I assume the remaining pieces were once one whole piece, each end flattened and all, as if a spring. I further assume it migrated from elsewhere, but don't find anything suggestive in illustrations at my disposal. Neither of the gears in the gearbox is missing a tooth, but one tooth on the idler is damaged to the extent that it needs replaced. We didn't find a gap on 1st look at the exposed intermediate gear, however suspect we need to re-examine more slowly. Would any of y'all venture a guess as to what the foreign body was in its original form?