weed question

[Don656]

I have a weed problem. I am not an expert at identifying weeds, but I think the weed in question is called curly dock. It is a very agressive weed with a thick tap root and chokes out everything else around it. I am having difficulty eliminating it from my field. I have had it sprayed -- did not kill it. I plowed it under -- it grew back up. I disced it, but that just spread it because however many pieces the disc chopped it into, there becomes that many more plants.

Anybody else have any problems/solutions for this weed? I have dug up a lot of them, but it is very time consuming.

Thanks.

 

[farmer steve]

How big is the affected area? If it"s a smaller patch then control should be easier.

 

[rrlund]

I had a 9 acre hay field that was so over run with it that it was pretty much useless. Went to Roundup Ready corn for two years and pretty well got rid of it.

 

[Don656]

The affected area is 17 acres. The curly dock is in patches spread throughout the entire 17 acres. The good news is that the weeds are in patches and do not cover the entire field, but the patches are intense with hundreds of weeds in each patch. I have cleared about 5 acres by digging them out, but there is no way I can do that for the remaining 12 acres -- too many weeds!

 

[randallinMo]

Banvel, Clarity, Grazon P+D, MIlestone, Overdrive...are all listed with a score of "9" on a scale of 1-10 for the control of curly dock on my 2011 Crop Protection Guide published by United Suppliers.

 

[farmer steve]

you mentioned spraying and that didn't work. I'm organic so I'll try it from a different angle. Two best options are vinegar, lemon juice concentrate with a dash of dawn dish soap. Spray it 2 or 3 times during a 24hr. period once a week and repeat for 2 or 3 weeks. Will kill it I guarntee. Then fire burn the brown killed weeds and if possible undercut with horizontal conservation sweeps to cut the roots at the 4 to 6 inch deep range. Horizontally cutting the roots shouldn't hurt your remainaing crop. Or if you have sheep available you could put them in electric netting concentrated on the affected areas. then once tops have been eliminted, under cut to kill root. I've had good luck with the vinegar and sheep. Best part is the vinegar spray can be used in combination with sheep and you don't have to worry about hurting the animals. Can't say that with 24-d.

 

[glennster]

i have curly dock on my farms. very deep tap root. if you cut it off it grows back. i use roundup and 2-4d with some dish soap and spot spray. does and excellent job, get a burndown in about a week and it doesnt come back. dont let the plant go to seed, it put out thousands of em. kinda like water hemp.

 

[rrlund]

Now do you see the flaw in organic? Imagine that problem across the entire country,or world.

 

[farmer steve]

If you didn't care about what's planted you could do intense grazing of sheep on the entire field then work the field every 12 to 14 days to catch the weeds when there easy to kill. Did that with a field bind weed issue on my field. Ya it took a good crop of yellow blossom sweet clover and sorghum sudan grass to rebuild the soil structure but guess what 5 years later it's clear and no poison was used on the land. If you had a big sprayer you could mix up the vinegar solution and spray the whole 17 acres. If all you care about is time. Considering the guy who first posted actually had the time to physically dig out 5 acres worth I'd say doing some organic/phsical removal shouldn't be a problem. In the end its just like the red or green tractor question. Some people prefer organic and some like the low maintenance approch of poison and GM crops. But with the spray resistance building up in your conventional farming I'd say many may come back to some of the old ways. Eventually you may not have a spray to kill. One thing to Don656, don't forget about smother crops. Sorghum sudan in the summmer and a winter cover crop of rye can't be beat.

 

[Ralph Bauer]

Which one's the problem, the vinegar, the lemon juice or the sheep?? Actually, I like the idea!

 

[paul]

I beleive threy don't really like heavy tillage with row crop farming, but will take years for all the little bits to give up that way....

The broadleaf sprays or glyphosate (Roundup) applied at the right time will take it down in a couple years. Those deep rooted weeds don't usually give up with just one spraying, probably takes 2 times a year, for 2 ot 3 years, before the rpoblem is knocked down. Don't give up the first time. And watch the timing, some weeds are better if small, some like this mght be better if big, some are better in fall spraying, most are better in spring spraying. There is dock around here, but it's not been a problem on my farm so don't have 1st hand experience with that one.

--->Paul

 

[paul]

Now, the only thing.....

Why is vinegar and/or salt considered organic, and the herbicides are labeled 'poison' by you?

And before you answer, might want to look up the LDL for each....

I'm all for farming in any of it's flavors and enjoy the mulitple options typically offered here, but kinda bugs me when there is such a bias of words being used....

If you are promoting taking a farm out of production for 5 yeara, and overcrowding it with livestock (hogs or sheep) which overloads the ground with N & P and leaves it open to erosion, then you want to pour acids and salts onto the ground, come back with a non-productive cover crop and hopeully have a field again in 5 years that is fine. If farming were a hobby and not my living I might even do something like that, I understand how it works.

But when you try to slip in the buzz words and knock other ways of farming that actually produces food, makes a living for hard working people, and you feed the fear-mongering that city folk are getting set up with, then it kinda bugs me.

Vinegar & salt & erosion and lost food production are good, but herbicides are 'poison'.

Huh.

--->Paul

 

[farmer steve]

Not sure how the organic/conventional argument this has turned into is helping Don656. I just wanted to add to the idea pool others have also posted. Don mentioned he tried some spray"s and they didn"t work. Yes I call 24-d and any other non natural a spray poison. If I can"t drink it or have to wear gloves and a mask to handle it according to the directions then it"s not going on my land. I would advise against hogs to remove the weed issue. Sheep in most cases will not pass thru the weed seeds and will break the organic matter down better then most and will eat bitter weeds that cows won"t even touch. The concept is sustainable farming. by using some natural removal techniques such as sheep or cover crops you will most likely leave the soil better then it was before the weed outbreak. Somthing is causing the weeds to grow. By figuring out what that weed likes whether it"s compacted soil, soil ph or high N that will allow you to compete against the weed and win. In the end we are talking about 17 acres. Not 1700. Some simple vinegar and a horizontal conservation sweep may work and it never hurts to try new things. To finish I will answer your question Paul, of why I call poison just that. I can my produce with vinegar but I don"t know of anyone willing to use weed spray for the same task.

 

[Ralph Bauer]

Gotta question, Steve: Used to buy 20% vinegar, or at least 15 % in the past, just god awfully expensive. What ratio do you mix those 2 in?? Dish soap makes it stick better, we have been using it in the fire departments in LA and OK for years, works great on the prairie and in the woods, too.

 

[farmer steve]

Ya that's the only problem with off the shelf vinegar. The new stuff isn't as strong which means you have to mix it a little stronger or just spray more. I'll usually pick some up when it's canning season along with 2 plastic lemons of juice concentrate. One gallon of vinegar, 2 plastic lemons and a dash of dawn dish soap or clove oil if you truly want to keep it natural. I've sprayed that even on wormwood and leafy spurge and long as you find a dry day and spray two or three times it will last several months. At least keeps it from going to seed and if I use fire to burn down, it seems to burn up nice since it's not green. The sheep don't seem to mind the spray and clean up the remaining weeds. I used sheep with intensive grazing on a old garden that turned into weeds neck high. After one summer it's back naturally into grass and weeds are 1% of what they were.

 

[Ralph Bauer]

Thanks, Steve, I'll give it a try. My gravel road, crushed rock, high lime content, needs it bad....

 

[paul]

I think organic operations are neat. Not sure they are or can be the answer to the worlds questions, but they certainly are worthwhile and cool and interesting and a good way to go.

I think most farmers have more in common than they have differences - organic, conventional, in between.

I see in your messages an undertow of disrespect for farmers who don't do things the way you do.

I try to respect and understand how different farmers do things differently. On another forum I'm often the one sticking up for organic folk, when they get put down in similar ways that you put down conventional farmers.

Your comments have that very negative undertow to them.

I don't see how your negativity helps anyone.

You don't see that, or understand what I am talking about, and of course this thread or this forum isn't the place to get into the details of all that, so good enough - you just don't see it. That's fine.

Hope we all get a good crop this year.

--->Paul