welding

[wbond]

I am looking to get a small welder for around the house & 4 acres, I have a small JD 770 w a box blade and will be adding or building implements as time and budget allows.

I took shop class in school and haven't really touched a welder that much in the last 25 to 30 years or so. I have been looking at farm auctions for a cutting torch they are still 300-400 at auctions for torches hoses and tanks.

But my main question on here today is what type of welder should I buy. I did not like stick welders because I was always either getting to close and sticking or to far away and losing my arc.

I have been looking at Lincoln's little wire feed welders but some use a gas (argon?) for shielding wind? while some do not.

and what is TIG and MIG welding

Thanks for your patience

 

[dr sportster]

You say you don't like stick but that would be the go to welding machine for farm maintenance. MIG is wire feed and TIG aka Heli-Arc is arc welding with a tungsten using the arc like a gas torch and feeding the rod manually with the left hand . You would be best advised to take a stick welding class and master that. Or Oxy/Acet gas welding that includes stick welding.

 

[ryanwheelock]

Like the Dr said a stick welder is best for around the farm but if you do go with a mig welder get a 220 volt and not a 110 volt.

 

[JRSutton]

I use a cheap, well used Lincoln "tombstone" for stick welding anything over 1/4".

And I use a Hobart 140 mig welder for everything 1/4 or under".

I'm very happy with that arrangement, and I can't see where it would need much upgrading in my lifetime.

The Hobart runs on 110 and is great for thin stuff - plus it's very portable seeing as how I can plug it in pretty much anywhere. It's a pleasure to use.

If I could ONLY have one - I'd go with the Lincoln because of it's ability to do thicker stuff.

If money's a concern, I'd have to recommend doing the same. Those old Lincoln's are tough to kill and they're cheap. Keep your eyes open and you can probably find one for around $150 - $200. It'll cover all your needs except sheet metal.

Then just learn to use it.

I don't think stick welding is all that much different than mig welding.

In fact, if you're like me, you spend more time breaking off mig wire that you accidentally ran out of the gun than you would unsticking a welding rod when stick welding.

If I were to have gone with a bigger mig welder, I'd have lost the portability (although I do believe Hobart makes one with dual power options, 110/220). I do a lot of haying on other people's property, so local power is much more available at the 110 level. Nice to have a welder in the truck for repairs on site.

One good thing about a stick welder is changing rod types for various applications is as easy as picking up a different rod.

On a mig welder, you're kinda stuck with what's in there. It's a pain in the butt to change it out. Not really hard to do - but enough work to make you say "screw it, what's in here is close enough".

You can go real cheap on a "mig" welder and go flux core - that doesn't use the shielding gas in a bottle - instead the gas comes from flux in the wire itself. Problem is, if you're welding sheet metal, flux core tends to burns hotter. So if you ever plan to weld sheet metal - go with a REAL mig welder (with gas).

I do think everybody you ask will agree with this next point: No matter which type of welding you do - you have to practice, practice, and practice.

And that's just to do the easy stuff. If you want to get fancy, you really need some instruction.

You can get good with either approach pretty quickly. But you have to want to learn to do it. And you have to be patient enough to pick up and learn all the little nuances that turn bird crap welds into nice professional looking welds.

 

[flembo]

If you are anything like me you will want a self darkening helmet with adjustable shade. Harbor freight has a ok one for about $60 . probably going to get some flak for the HF.

 

[Lance Skene]

I suggest a 220v mig with Co2, modern mig welders are "welding for dumbies"... the wire is one size does all, 20ga tin to 1/4 plate very nicely, its by far the easiest and is more than capable of 3/8 or even 1/2 plate with multipul passes, add a spool gun and you can weld aluminum aswell.

A stick welder is more capable of deeper penetration in a single pass but you need to learn what rods to use for many differant applications, it is the best way to weld cast if thats a concern.

Tig is best left for the pros... it is very nice to use however... how much are you willing to pay... good tigs are not cheap... cheap tigs are not good. Everything about a tig is $$$ and it requires steady hands.... which at my age I no longer have.

FYI...Ive been a metal fabricator by trade for nearly 30 yrs, and started welding things around the farm with a stick long before that... I now supervise a 60,000sq ft fab shop... every rookie starts on the migs.

 

[JRSutton]

lance makes a good point about the mig wire being pretty universal for most welding applications - so there isn't much need to change it -

but one reason you'd want to do that is to weld outside.

Mig welders blow the gas around the wire as you weld - if it's windy, that gas gets blown away.

So in any mig welder, you can run flux core wire which as I explained earlier, takes the place of the bottle fed shielding gas. Flux core is better for windy environments.

But - for everything else - you'll probably want the regular wire with the gas.

If it's a flux core mig (popular, cheap, and incorrectly named) you can ONLY use flux core wire - there is not fitting for the gas.

So - to me it's a pain because I do a lot of outdoor welding - and a lot of indoor welding of sheet metal with the gas. It's not the end of the world, but it's a pain.

 

[Hank ABAB]

............. and the Flux Core wire is pretty spendy compared to the solid wire for MIG.

Check the prices at your supplier - you will be surprised.

I say get yourself a good old LINCOLN Idealarc 250 AC/DC, or the equivalent Miller Dialarc 250 AC/DC stick welder. You can use any electrode (rod) that is made. Either of these welders will outlast you, and likely your grandkids!

Watch out for "cold lap" when doing MIG.

And by all means, take a welding course.

 

[jon f mn]

Get a torch first. They are about the most important of the welding tools. heating to loosen parts and cutting steel are the most common things done, at least for me. You can also braze light steel and cast iron and gas weld steel. But you have to be careful what you buy, especially at auctions. most tanks are leased and are worthless if bought at an auction. No gas company will fill lease tanks from another company and if you try to fill leased tanks without the paperwork the gas company will just take them from you. If they claim the tanks are owned make sure you get the paperwork that goes with them.

As far as welders goes, the advice given so far is all good. You have to decide where your priorities are. From what you have said so far I would recomend a small wirefeed, but in 220 volt. The 110 volt wire feeds are only good for about 1/8", maybe 3/16" if you get a good one, and they loose a lot of power if you try to run them from an extension cord. The 220 volt models will weld up to 1/4" well, and there is surprisingly little welding on the farm that is thicker than that, and for that you can weld multiple passes to get by for most of it. I've tried out all the brands and in the small migs the Lincoln is by far the best. And the ones sold at the discount stores are not the same as those sold at most welding supply stores and are cheaper for a reason.

There is nothing wrong with getting a stick welder also, they are cheaper to start with and can do more stuff, but are a bit harder to use than mig welder.

 

[Lance Skene]

My Pop was a die hard stick fan... but if you told him you could use just any stick he'd probably smack ya upside the head with a box of them...lol.

Stick is cheap and very versatile, but so is a mig with Co2, and migs are far easier to learn, at home I have an old 220 Lincoln stick and a an even older 110 Hobart mig with Co2, Co2 is alot cheaper than argon so even if I have to turn up the gas to weld outside I dont worry about wasting the gas, tack it and take it back to the shop if needed.

I wouldnt thank somebody for a free spool of fluxcore mig wire.

Lincoln's are personal brand choice but at work we have all Millers, mig and tig, no complaints about any of them.

Everyone here is adding good advice.. Im not discrediting anyone.... but training rookie welders is part of my job description and I believe migs are the easiest place to start... I often refer to it a "Soldering for Dumbies" because it teaches ppl to control the pool properly which you can later apply to anything from silver soldering and brazing to tig welding.

BUT... Im still my Pops kid... nothing sticks like a stick, I just dont believe its neccesary for most/many ppl this day in age.

 

[IH2444]

(quoted from post at 14:59:40 06/24/14) My Pop was a die hard stick fan... but if you told him you could use just any stick he'd probably smack ya upside the head with a box of them...lol.

Stick is cheap and very versatile, but so is a mig with Co2, and migs are far easier to learn, at home I have an old 220 Lincoln stick and a an even older 110 Hobart mig with Co2, Co2 is alot cheaper than argon so even if I have to turn up the gas to weld outside I dont worry about wasting the gas, tack it and take it back to the shop if needed.

I wouldnt thank somebody for a free spool of fluxcore mig wire.

Lincoln's are personal brand choice but at work we have all Millers, mig and tig, no complaints about any of them.

Everyone here is adding good advice.. Im not discrediting anyone.... but training rookie welders is part of my job description and I believe migs are the easiest place to start... I often refer to it a "Soldering for Dumbies" because it teaches ppl to control the pool properly which you can later apply to anything from silver soldering and brazing to tig welding.

BUT... Im still my Pops kid... nothing sticks like a stick, I just dont believe its neccesary for most/many ppl this day in age.

And if you are going to be building stuff a cheap abrasive chop saw is a must have.

 

[Steve@Advance]

And a 4 or 5 inch angle grinder!

 

[Royse]

I'm not a pro welder, but I have to agree with the other guys.
A stick welder is very versatile, especially if you get an AC/DC one.
I also have a wire feed/Argon welder. Easy to use on thin stuff,
but I can weld exhaust pipe with my 1936 Lincoln tombstone too.
This one even has a built in 6V battery charger. Two bottom right holes.
A little care and they'll last for a very, very long time.

 

[Anonymous-0]

First question...What's your budget? A 220 volt
machine is your best bet and will allow you to
tackle almost any projects that come along. If you
want/need to weld outside, stick is best and look
for a machine with DC current. That could be why you
had so much trouble in the past.

 

[Bret4207]

I use my torches for heating stuck stuff and brazing more than anything else. These days I tend to run my stuff I need cut to a neighbor with a plasma outfit because the cut is about 1/4 the size of that done with a torch. For welding a 220 buzz box is hard to beat for the price. I've seen name brand machines go for $40-50.00 with leads and a helmet and some rod. Yes, there is a learning curve to stick, but if I can do it, darn near anyone can.

 

[Frank 41]

I like my 211 Miller. Can be used 110 or 220 and auto wire feed and heat.

 

[1130Leo]

I always used to prefer my small Miller Mig,
however, I have found out the hard way, one can not
weld our old rusty field equipment very well with a
small Mig, it simply does not penetrate well enough.
I have acquired a Lincoln 225, which I now use for
all of my equipment repairs, it has worked very well
so far.