What am l missing

[Oldmantractor]

I'm taking a shot in the dark here. somebody will correct me if I am out to lunch. would rusted shut valves cause such. reason I wonder is you take the plugs out and engine spins easy. That means it is not because of a hyd pump or anything in transmission. If the exhaust valves are rusted shut after on round you have to many cylinders with compression? like I say just wild thoughts here.

going to check the valves will let you know

 

[used red MN]

going to check the valves will let you know

I doubt the valves are your problem as I said above in reply 17. Do you have the battery in position and using the starter as normal through the switches? If so we need a voltage reading at the starter terminal when the starter is engaged and not turning the engine. How do the flywheel teeth look? Maybe there is a problem with them and the starter drive teeth climb up on them and bind up.

 

[Mule Meat]

Just throwing this out there. Could it be hydro locking?

 

[wore out]

I'm taking a shot in the dark here. somebody will correct me if I am out to lunch. would rusted shut valves cause such. reason I wonder is you take the plugs out and engine spins easy. That means it is not because of a hyd pump or anything in transmission. If the exhaust valves are rusted shut after on round you have to many cylinders with compression? like I say just wild thoughts here.

If exhaust valve(s) are "rusted shut" their pushrods would get bent or rocker arms broken.

A sign of such a thing having happened would be loud popping through the intake because of the intake valves opening under residual pressure.

 

[used red MN]

Just throwing this out there. Could it be hydro locking?

You would think he would see fluid flowing out when he cranks it with no spark plugs in it.

 

[Mule Meat]

You would think he would see fluid flowing out when he cranks it with no spark plugs in it.

Not always. If it sat in a barn for several years like he said. Oil could gel or become to thick to be blown out like it would if flooded with fuel or fresher oil.

 

[Janicholson]

When the ring gear engages flywheel motor appears locked up or my make an attempt to turn the engine,take the spark plugs out and turns over the motor normally,purchased a new starter thinking the old one may just be weak but new or old same problem ,I can grab the fan and turn the motor over with one hand and also can see the flywheel spin I seen one reply about a stuck exhaust valve ,time to remove valve cover ,I have been using a 12 volt battery to the starter

In my opinion the battery cables, battery, connections, or starter switch. A jumper box is just that, good for a car with a partially dead battery and capable of putting out 150 amps for a minute. It will not do what you are asking of it. Don't jump a 6v with a 12v battery unless right to the starter motor, bypassing all the tractor electrical. A volt meter applied to the effort to start it is needed. Drawdown should be at 5.5 volts or so at the starter when cranking. I bet it is about 3 volts. Jim

 

[kencombs]

I don't see any mention of oiling the cylinders. Any engine that has set for some time will have flash rust on the bores. That makes it hard to turn.

If you haven't already, give each spark plug hole a dose of ATF, then turn by hand to spread the lube around. Let it set for at least a day or two then add another shot of ATF and crank, without plugs. My bet is it will spin much better.

 

[stevieb49829]

Stevie, I’ll have to watch your posts closer. I don’t remember ever seeing you try to slip in some humor.

Sometimes it's really subtle. Sometimes, not so much. steve

 

[Fixingfarmer]

It sounds like it has been spinning and he says it spins over well enough by hand so I don’t think the crank is the issue. I’m in the pull the valve cover and check for a stuck valve camp. Bent pushrod combination with or something else along that path I think you will find your answer there. If you pulled the plugs one at a time you could also possibly identify the hole that is having trouble but it doesn’t really matter the short answer is it’s time to tear into the top end. Especially the key at the end he said it will turn over once...2 revolutions to put the valve train through its paces under normal operation. One revolution you have half done then you have hit the stuck side.

 

[Hoofer B]

Chain start it

 

[used red MN]

Chain start it

That suggestion brings up a good question, is the engine even close to running? Spark and fuel? I guess all we can do is wait out the results of the valve check.

 

[TerryfromSWIowa]

Did you squirt some oil in the cylinders? Might just be drag on the rings since it turned with plugs out.

 

[Steve K in Mi]

Is it possible the firing order is wrong? He said with the plugs out it spins fairly well, with the plugs in not so much, if it's trying to fire at the wrong time I think that could cause the problems hes having

 

[sonnythomas]

Lot of good suggestions above. If valves are working as they should, try pulling the tractor to start it.

Had 1949 8N Ford that sat for several years. Same year I was born. Engine was locked up. Poured bunches of penetrating oil in cylinders. Let set a for few days and got the engine to turn over but wouldn't start. Carburetor, spark plugs, and wiring all were good to go. Pulled tractor and it started up. Took a while for engine to smooth out and then sounded great. Started on it's own from then on. Surprising was compression was good. Club used it was several years and without issue.

 

[sonnythomas]

Memories. My great uncle had a H out on the farm. I used to cultivate with it. Steering was pretty much shot. I didn't steer it, I herded the thing down through the corn and beans. Throw the steering half a turn to catch up to get back straight. Every so often some corn and beans got plowed out.
And the clutch didn't always work right, couldn't clutch it. I don't know how many times I shut tractor off to stop it. Get in neutral, start it, raise cultivator, shut it off, put in gear, start the tractor and start cultivating again. Hey, I was 12 or 13 years old. I'd be one tired puppy come the end of the day. Use to cultivate corn until the dew came on. Unlucky me, the lights worked. Ate supper lots of times well after dark.

 

[NoDakInMN]

Janinicholson is offering good advice. When troubleshooting you always check basic and simple things first and work your way through process of elimination. You have already invested in a new starter to no avail, so I would make my next step measuring the voltage at the starter when cranking. That is a piece of diagnostic information you need to find out right away. Taking a shotgun approach, where you try things willy nilly, can be time consuming and expensive.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Bypassed everything,straight from a jumper box

A jumper box is not a replacement for good cables.

Those clamps can't carry nearly as much current as a solid connection can, so jumper box or jumper cables in a situation like this is not a good test.

 

[caterpillar guy]

Ok just thought here but have you turned the engine over at least one complete revolution? If not try that with the plugs out first. Squirt a dab of oil in each cylinder first to give the rings something for lubrication as they slide up and down. Now if it turns completely over with the plugs out and tappet cover off check each valve for movement. or bent pushrods if not moving. Since it turns over I would not expect the valves to be the problem with turning at that point though if it came to a stop or tighter spot maybe a stuck valve. Now if this checks out then look into cables . You need cables about the size of your thumb without insulation for 6 volt and slightly smaller for 12 volt bigger is better for these. IF you need cables go to a welding shop for them they have the softer more flexible cable for welder cables unlike some of the cables in semis that are fairly stiff. it is the diameter of the cable not the stiffness that matters here. then clean bright and shiny should solve the turn over problem with the starter. If you still have trouble post back with the results of what you have tried and done. As for the ring gear I have only had one ever in 50 years and a dozen tractors and other vehicles have a ring gear split and that was on a 574 one time had to split it with the loader on to fix. Look at your teeth on the ring gear for dubbing over on the edge like the starter gear may have been worn and not engaging well. If they need work it can be done somewhat through the starter hole with tedious time consuming work.

 

[Oldmantractor]

In my opinion the battery cables, battery, connections, or starter switch. A jumper box is just that, good for a car with a partially dead battery and capable of putting out 150 amps for a minute. It will not do what you are asking of it. Don't jump a 6v with a 12v battery unless right to the starter motor, bypassing all the tractor electrical. A volt meter applied to the effort to start it is needed. Drawdown should be at 5.5 volts or so at the starter when cranking. I bet it is about 3 volts. Jim

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for their suggestions, after removing the valve cover I found two pushrods not connected, fixed that problem and converted it to 12 volts with a battery and now cranks over normal with the plugs in I guess a jumper box doesn’t have enough power to turn the engine ,now let’s see if I can get it to run