what do you think about this?

[taem]

I would value your thoughts about a situation I've had recently: a couple of years ago I built a 40x60 pole barn for machine storage (tractors among them) with one part gravel floor with stall mats and one part cement slab 4-5. The whole place had a six inch perimeter drain surrounding the telephone pole uprights. The fellow I used to do the drainage, set the poles and pour the slab is someone I've worked with for over 20 years and has been a neighbor. He's done excavator work (he is a genius who can put a teacup on a fence post with an excavator), logging and so forth for me. He's bought beef, hay and other stuff from me and hunts on my land.So, the year following the construction, the slab heaved, cracked and screwed up the sliding door on the end of the barn. I really don't know why, because he's poured lots of slabs, cellars and so forth in our Northern Vermont climate and has had no complaints. My theory is that that they compacted too much over the drainage and water infiltrated under the slab. Anyway, I approached him about fixing it and never really spelled out what the terms would be. I figured he would charge me the materials (more crushed stone and of course the cement) and give me a substantial break on his labor. The bill I got was basically what he would have charged me for the original job, plus some more for a couple of small jobs I needed done around the barn. That didn't sit quite right, and I asked him to lower the bill, which he did by about 20%. He has been pretty chilly with me since then. I feel that I was justified in my expectations, polite etc. and I still would use him if I had another job. What do you guys think? I am more interested in continuing good relations with him than proving any point. Was I wrong to expect him to make the job right?

 

[DRussell]

I sincerely doubt that he thought he was giving you a warranty when he did the original work. If he's not a contractor doing that work for a living, he probably thought he was simply doing a job for a friend with no warranty expected or implied.

 

[Bruce from Can.]

The Devil is in the details. Did you recommend the depth of the concrete in the original slave, or did he ? Did you require rewire or rebar? Was there any discussion about the strength of the concrete that east to be poured? Answers to these questions could shed some light on to why the slab cracked, and what could have been done differently to avoid the cracking, and eventually point a finger at who was ultimately responsible. A good slab should rise and fall with the frost without cracking no question there. Only question I have is who did the engineering on this job?

 

[NY 986]

There is a lot that we do not know about this. That aside you might have been giving too much for the sake of a friendship. Some people are takers meaning when they should give some back they do so grudgingly. You might be just seeing the true nature of this guy.

 

[Janicholson]

While the relationship has taken a hit, I see it possible to mend it. Write (old fashioned, but meaningful) a note expressing your continued trust in his work, and explain that, because the original work failed that some compensation for its expense was to be expressed in the repair needed to make it right. Though it differs from mechanical repair, the burden for making it right should be shared somewhat. Express what you have stated here about your friendship. and indicate that his lowering of the bill was very appreciated. If you told him, how to engineer the original preparation and pour then I think you are making the mistake. Jim

 

[taem]

Thanks for the comments so far. No, I did not tell him how to do the job, just that I wanted a slab of a certain thickness. I did not specify rebar or mesh, and he used the concrete with some type of fiber mesh. I would note that I noticed that he had poured up to and around the telephone poles and I think that might have had something to do with the failure since the slab would be tied to the poles. On the redo, he used mesh and I had him wrap the poles so that the slab could move independently . By the way, I sent him a note with payment for the new bill thanking him for the discount.

 

[1948CaseVAI]

In parts of the country where thing heave from frost it is unreasonable to demand a "warranty." Pay your bill and be glad you know someone with the skills to repair nature's damage.

 

[Loosehandle]

My pole barn doors dangle just outside slab, doesn't matter if concrete goes up and down with weather. Another guy posted somewhere there are two types of concrete cracked and that will crack.

 

[Goose]

My first thought is you should have had the details of the repair spelled out, including an estimate of the cost and cause of the damage, before the repair was done.

In effect, you gave him a blank check and told him to fix it.

 

[Fordy20]

An unheated slab in northern Vermont will heave just like frost heaves in roads do. The only way to prevent it is to pour the slab over rigid insulation. If the building was heated it wouldn't have happened. In cold climates, I've seen sidewalks in strip malls heave so bad that the storefront doors wouldn't open.

 

[taem]

point taken. I should have specified more. And, as another pointed out, there was no engineering spelled out. I left everything to him

 

[taem]

In fact, he digs and pours a lot of cellar holes. He's a jack of all trades, excavator, logger, maple syrup producer.

 

[aFORDable]

I have been caught in a situation like this a couple of times in life. First of all, since you did not get an estimate you are at his mercy. I doubt he tried to hold you up anyway, at least in his mind. Second, he did do you a favor by reducing it 20%. I'd live and learn, pay the bill and hold no grudge since the fault actually lies in the fact you did not get an estimate. I have learned to know what to expect in such cases and that prevents these kinds of problems. Pay it and move on.

 

[taem]

Yep. That's what I did. I've just been wondering how others might feel

 

[showcrop]

Frost heaving has nothing to do insulation or compaction, and very little to do with reinforcement. Concrete, asphalt, posts, boulders, you name it will heave if there is water in the ground under them and the water freezes. Ice has significantly more volume than water. Here in the north, builders and contractors are expected to provide adequate drainage to the ground such that water will run right through and drain away. It is not rocket science. It just takes the use of correct materials. If they don't do it right word gets around and they don't get work.

 

[Steve@Advance]

At this point, I think I would concentrate on the future and how to prevent it from happening again.

I don't live where that happens, so I can't give any advice, but there must be solutions.

Is it possible the barn is in a low area that possibly has water flowing or settling underneath? Could there be French drains, or some way to divert the water?

 

[Stuart]

It can still happen if the building is heated. Best way is to pour a frost wall under each door opening.

 

[cjunrau]

around here it is expected to heave. not sure about where you are. I have never heard of warranty on concrete work. 4-5 inches would never be under or close to an over head door. 12 inches would be more like it with lots of rebar.

 

[Mike M]

Here in Northern Ohio I put a separate footer for the overhead doors to go down on. About a foot or so wide and down 3 feet deep. In my non heated and heated buildings. I then have them pour the floor right up against this footer and the poles and baseboards. When the concrete cures it dries out and shrinks and pulls away from those items. Works out good.

 

[J.Wondergem]

That might be the last job he'll do for you.