What is up with old hardware???

[Mdparrott]

I've had more gremlins on reassembly than any other area of the Jube's rebuild.

Put the hydraulic drive gear on, four bolts wouldn't torque. Felt them slipping, one actually stripped. Checked the manual, supposed to be 5/16 x 28's. Not these, these were 1/4 x 20's.

Bought four new grade 5 bolts, ran a tap in to clean the threads and reinstalled. They torqued ok.

Installed the flywheel tonight, installed the clutch assembly. While stagger torquing the pressure plate bolts to 12-16 lbs, one bolt broke, caused the pressure plate to pop loose and broke three other bolts. Four out of six broke off.

Now I've got four bolts to drill out.

Probably should have bought new pressure plate bolts while I was at it.

 

[HFJ]

that would be cause for much questionable language here. u have my sympathy.

 

[Mdparrott]

(quoted from post at 20:22:55 04/06/16) that would be cause for much questionable language here. u have my sympathy.

Caused a little questionable language here, too. :/

 

[Walston]

Are you sure you torque wrench is OK. I have done several tractors and always had good luck using the old stuff. Make sure you are not accidentally over torquing.

Just a thought...

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 22:55:12 04/06/16) I've had more gremlins on reassembly than any other area of the Jube's rebuild.

Put the hydraulic drive gear on, four bolts wouldn't torque. Felt them slipping, one actually stripped. Checked the manual, supposed to be 5/16 x 28's. Not these, these were 1/4 x 20's.

Bought four new grade 5 bolts, ran a tap in to clean the threads and reinstalled. They torqued ok.

Installed the flywheel tonight, installed the clutch assembly. While stagger torquing the pressure plate bolts to 12-16 lbs, one bolt broke, caused the pressure plate to pop loose and broke three other bolts. Four out of six broke off.

Now I've got four bolts to drill out.

Probably should have bought new pressure plate bolts while I was at it.

I know many people here think old stuff is always better than new stuff but fasteners have a finite lifespan. Repeated assembly/disassembly, the stresses they see in operation, chemical attack, thermal cycling, etc. all take a toll on their mechanical properties. You are seeing that play out in front of you. Reusing 60 year old fasteners is a crap shoot. Just be happy you found the problem during assembly and not later.

TOH

PS> Don't fire up that drill too quickly. I suspect you will find that the clutch cover bolts can be turned out using a suitable tool pressed against the broken end.....

 

[gears]

I was thinking a lefthand drill bit would be the ticket if they're broken flush.

 

[Mdparrott]

(quoted from post at 03:53:12 04/07/16)
Are you sure you torque wrench is OK. I have done several tractors and always had good luck using the old stuff. Make sure you are not accidentally over torquing.

Just a thought...

I think so. I didn't pull that hard and some of the bolts that broke weren't even torqued yet. Good thought though, thx.

 

[Mdparrott]

PS> Don't fire up that drill too quickly. I suspect you will find that the clutch cover bolts can be turned out using a suitable tool pressed against the broken end.....[/quote]



Would love suggestions. Maybe a slotted screwdriver bit? Bolts broke off about 1/4 inch below the surface.

 

[Mdparrott]

Think I'll try to get one today. Just about to stop at harbor freight and get an extractor set.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 11:08:26 04/07/16) PS> Don't fire up that drill too quickly. I suspect you will find that the clutch cover bolts can be turned out using a suitable tool pressed against the broken end.....

Would love suggestions. Maybe a slotted screwdriver bit? Bolts broke off about 1/4 inch below the surface.[/quote]

If the threads were clean it shouldn't take much. The screwdriver ida often works. I have even had success using the eraser on the end of a pencil......

TOH

 

[markct]

A good chance they were overtourqed in
the past.

 

[Mdparrott]

Brings up another question…

When I took it apart, there were flat washers between the flywheel in the clutch housing. Neither of my manuals nor the New Holland website parts diagram shows a flat washer here.

Am I missing something or is this just a "previous owner repair"? Are there supposed to be washers here? I'm replacing the pressure plate and clutch with new.

 

[Jock(OR)]

Check the length of one of the surviving bolts. They may have been replaced in the past with longer
bolts, thus requiring the washer to keep the bolt from bottoming out in the threads.

Someone may have replaced the bolts with Grade 2 (unmarked) bolts that are not strong enough for the
application. Ford had a tendency to use good fasteners, but not mark them. Unless you are sure
that they are original, be very skeptical of unmarked bolts.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 14:54:06 04/07/16) Check the length of one of the surviving bolts. They may have been replaced in the past with longer
bolts, thus requiring the washer to keep the bolt from bottoming out in the threads.

Someone may have replaced the bolts with Grade 2 (unmarked) bolts that are not strong enough for the
application. Ford had a tendency to use good fasteners, but not mark them. Unless you are sure
that they are original, be very skeptical of unmarked bolts.

If I were to speculate I would guess the reason there are no SAE grade markings on the original N-series fasteners is because the SAE J429 specification that defines the grades and their identifying markings didn't come into existence until 1949. :roll:

I would also speculate it was quite a few years after that before the fastener industry was fully compliant and they became standard practice.

If you find a bolt with SAE grade markings on your N-series tractor you can be pretty danm (sic) sure it is not factory original :idea:

TOH