Which implement ? Disc/chisel/cultivator

[moparguy55]

Hello all,

Looking for some advice on tilling. We bought a place with 20 acres of field last year that had corn in it. I had bought a 1547 massey tractor a 3 furrow plow and an old school 8 foot disc.
Sold the tractor as i realized fast it was too small for the field and hydrostatic is less than ideal for field work. I had probably 60 hours going over those 20 acres with the plow and harrow. Probably 8 acres on a slight incline. Low range 1mph lol was long

I plowed it and disced it a few times. The disc being light didnt do a whole lot. Still visable rows. It grew up to weeds. Bush hogged it all this fall.

Looking to cut up all the weed growth and actually level it this year. Then plant something for cover. Going to plant 50ish dwarf apple trees and maybe 2 acres of crops. Not sure what would be the best for orchard.

Anyhow i have bought a 5510 john deere. Wondering if a 12 foot disc with a log or chain harrow behind will do what i want without plowing again? There is no sawd you can see the dirt everywhere at base of the weed stuble. looked at 3 pt 7-9 point chisels that go straight into fround interesting too but i assume still beed to disc after.

Plan on having potatoes and sweet corn. Thiught the disc could also serve for tilling after corn and potatoes.

Thoughts on a disc?

Probably smarter to hire someone with a big disc but i do like the field work.

Cheers

 

[caterpillar guy]

Well if you have the chisel I would use that first then disc it. I would think you could pull a 12foot or so disk with that tractor. The chisel would be limited to about 5 shanks with 3 inch twisted shovels on it. And maybe less depending on the dirt. MFWD will also enter into the pull on a chisel since it would give you more pull. Plowing is not needed unless you don't have the chisel. I would also want a field cultivator after the disk or in place of it . hey will plug in to much trash though.

 

[moparguy55]

²

Well if you have the chisel I would use that first then disc it. I would think you could pull a 12foot or so disk with that tractor. The chisel would be limited to about 5 shanks with 3 inch twisted shovels on it. And maybe less depending on the dirt. MFWD will also enter into the pull on a chisel since it would give you more pull. Plowing is not needed unless you don't have the chisel. I would also want a field cultivator after the disk or in place of it . hey will plug in to much trash though.

Thanks

Sold the 3 row plow. Just have the old 8 ft (garden disc) we could call it.

Tractor is 4x4

I have seen an implement, not sure what its called its a tow behind with a row of discs and then C shaped spring teeth with metal roller/grinders off the back.

Seen a few white brand discs forsale within 1 hour from me.

Do the discs innthe 10-14ft size have adjustable angle for the discs like my little garden one?

 

[caterpillar guy]

If the disk is a hydraulic lift they probably need to be adjusted by unbolting something and moving the gangs then tightening the bolts back up. Otherwise they probably don't adjust. Since they would lift off the ground hydraulically.
As for the planting depending on where you are you will not pant anything till spring probably now so I would just wait till spring put down a contact spray for the weeds then plant your trees right into that. this will help keep the weeds under control till they get started. After they get started you can mow/disk around them to keep weeds down then. for the crop planting I would disk it over when the ground is dry enough to work then depending on what you plant on how smooth you need to be. With Taters or sweet corn it doesn't need to be floor smooth like you would want it for a hay field or soybeans. Work over a couple times plant and then if you can use a residual over the top premerge that would be an option. then comeback later with a contact. This will be something you will want to talk to your local Coop about or other farm service company like the place you buy fertilizer or spray products for. IT would also be a good idea to do a soil test for the crops you want to plant and in the area you want to plant each crop. Fruit trees will be different than field crops. IF it needs lime or not would want to be worked in before planting along with any fertilizer you use then the trees will need to be an over the top plan after they get established. Lime and potash could be applied now and be ready for spring. You can do random samples or grid samples. Grid costs a bit more but is more efficient on fertilizer since the rates applied will vary with the area in the field that needs it more and less where it does not need as much. Your g extension office might be as much help with the fruit trees as the local Coop is. Or a master gardener as they both tend to work with people having a few trees for their own use in a more varied application of orchard versus the Coop that tends to lean towards the regular field crops like corn beans and wheat or alfalfa. type of crops.

 

[RobCons]

I would add weight to the disc and try it before buying something else. Unless you have other usesvfor another implement. Weight could be a log, railroad ties, heavy steel pipe, etc. Set the front disc at a sharp angle to cut deeper and the rear ones at a shallow angle to smooth out the soil.

 

[showcrop]

There are huge difference between different types of discs. Heavy offsets cut deep and level the ground, while finishing discs smooth for planting without changing the contour.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

²

Thanks

Sold the 3 row plow. Just have the old 8 ft (garden disc) we could call it.

Tractor is 4x4

I have seen an implement, not sure what its called its a tow behind with a row of discs and then C shaped spring teeth with metal roller/grinders off the back.

Seen a few white brand discs forsale within 1 hour from me.

Do the discs innthe 10-14ft size have adjustable angle for the discs like my little garden one?

You could be talking about a soil finisher or a vertical tillage machine. Your tractor is way too small for either of those.

What you need is a small heavy tillage disc, also called an offset disc, around 6-7ft wide, because that's all the tractor that size can handle. Finishing discs will just bounce off all the roots and plant material you've turned up with the plow until they've rotted down. A heavy tillage disc will chop it up.

Industrias America makes a small offset disc like that, which you can buy new. The model is 2420.

 

[paul]

What type of soil do you have? Heavy clay soils an disks don’t get along well. Lighter loam or Sandy soils and your plan should work ok.

In general one wants to go through the dirt with a heavy shank. Plow, chisel plow. Stir the ground bust it up. Let it sit over winter or a month if you have long springs to mellow. 8 inches deep or more. Some very heavy disks work for this too, if not in wet clay.

Then disk it to settle and level it and kill the small weeds. This goes about 4 inches deep. On average. Might want to do this twice, week apart.

A harrow or drag does the finish. Goes an inch or two deep. Smooths the field, busts small clumps, kills weed seedlings.

Where folk get into trouble is when they say I want to plant tomorrow, so I better start plowing today….. you are trying to cheat the system.

Proper seedbed and weed control takes time. Or 150hp and really big tools like you mention.

You can probably get by with just the little disk. If that’s what you want. I would put the heavy chain, and some I beams, on it to weight it down so it does something. Chopping up cornstalks in firm soil takes weight. On the other hand working up fresh soft soil in spring with a disk doesn’t take much weight at all. You will need to match the tool to the conditions.

Paul

 

[moparguy55]

Thanks all

Most of the soil is 8 inchs of fluffy sandy earth. With clay under. Some spots clay is closer to the top.

I had a 50 gallon water barrel half full strapped to the front row of disks this summer with the massey 1547. But even strapped on it moved around and would come loose.

A 12 ft disc with the hydralic cylinder and tires would weigh how much ?

This 8 foot one i have has 4 small baskets we can call it for adding weight. If i had to guess the front set weigh maybe 3-400lbs ? So 600-800lbs total? I am not sure.

 

[caterpillar guy]

It would depend on the disc. Most double discs would probably be in the 1000-2000 more or less on average. Up to about 10-12 foot. bigger would of course weight more. I don't know that you need an offset disc. A field cultivator would dig up plowed ground from last fall. Even last spring for planting. You would want something along the type of a 4600 Model IH or there about in a smaller size like about 8-12 feet. Those old spring tooth drags will just plug up in any trash on the top. The reason for the field cultivator. The teeth are spaced farther apart and have more length to them so more trash can flow through them.

 

[Ray,IN]

I'm not a fan of high HP tractors for a small job, 20A is a small field IMO. I assume it's rather flat, having been in corn previously.
A MF TO30 has 19 drawbar HP, the sales brochure says it is designed for 60 acres of tilling. I had one, it pulls a 2-14 plow and 6' disc without problems. It just takes longer to do the job.
The MF 1547 has 47 HP., which should work fine IMO, pulling 3-14's and weighted 8' disc,
If your ground has a hard-pan near the surface that prevents drainage, work it with a sub-soiler first to break the hard-pan. This will also make the plowing and discing easier.

 

[moparguy55]

I'm not a fan of high HP tractors for a small job, 20A is a small field IMO. I assume it's rather flat, having been in corn previously.
A MF TO30 has 19 drawbar HP, the sales brochure says it is designed for 60 acres of tilling. I had one, it pulls a 2-14 plow and 6' disc without problems. It just takes longer to do the job.
The MF 1547 has 47 HP., which should work fine IMO, pulling 3-14's and weighted 8' disc,
If your ground has a hard-pan near the surface that prevents drainage, work it with a sub-soiler first to break the hard-pan. This will also make the plowing and discing easier.

No half of it is on a 3-4% incline.
1 mph in low range at 2300rpm. If the massey would have been a gear drive with ag tires it would have been different story. But when the field was dry enough to work the industrial tires would grab enough to almost stall it in medium range 2wd.

On the flats in the fluffy stuff when the whole disc would penetrate it would also have to go down to low range 1mph.

Took me 50-60 hrs to plow it and go over it twice with the disc and it is far from flat. It got its arse worked off it lol. With the plow it would burn 1/2 qt oil in 10 hrs.

 

[Ray,IN]

No half of it is on a 3-4% incline.
1 mph in low range at 2300rpm. If the massey would have been a gear drive with ag tires it would have been different story. But when the field was dry enough to work the industrial tires would grab enough to almost stall it in medium range 2wd.

On the flats in the fluffy stuff when the whole disc would penetrate it would also have to go down to low range 1mph.

Took me 50-60 hrs to plow it and go over it twice with the disc and it is far from flat. It got its arse worked off it lol. With the plow it would burn 1/2 qt oil in 10 hrs.

IMO, hydrostatic drive was the problem. If you're still utility tractor shopping, look at 50HP gear-drive MF tractors.
I don't have any complaints about my MF 451 w/shuttle-shift pulling plows, discs, sub-soilers, etc. I can pull my sub-soiler 3' deep using 3 gear-low range fine.
My rule of thumb is, if I can give it more throttle and the engine responds quickly, I'm not using too high a gear.

 

[moparguy55]

IMO, hydrostatic drive was the problem. If you're still utility tractor shopping, look at 50HP gear-drive MF tractors.
I don't have any complaints about my MF 451 w/shuttle-shift pulling plows, discs, sub-soilers, etc. I can pull my sub-soiler 3' deep using 3 gear-low range fine.
My rule of thumb is, if I can give it more throttle and the engine responds quickly, I'm not using too high a gear.

That is a good indicator on choosing the right gear. Here in canada if the tractor is less that 60pto hp it is taxable. Kinda the reason i was looking for a case 4210 685 but cant find any. The 5510 cabbed deere has 4700 hrs 4x4 and loader with power reverser transmission for 25k. Pretty clean unit best deal i have come across.

 

[will-max dairy]

Hello all,

Looking for some advice on tilling. We bought a place with 20 acres of field last year that had corn in it. I had bought a 1547 massey tractor a 3 furrow plow and an old school 8 foot disc.
Sold the tractor as i realized fast it was too small for the field and hydrostatic is less than ideal for field work. I had probably 60 hours going over those 20 acres with the plow and harrow. Probably 8 acres on a slight incline. Low range 1mph lol was long

I plowed it and disced it a few times. The disc being light didnt do a whole lot. Still visable rows. It grew up to weeds. Bush hogged it all this fall.

Looking to cut up all the weed growth and actually level it this year. Then plant something for cover. Going to plant 50ish dwarf apple trees and maybe 2 acres of crops. Not sure what would be the best for orchard.

Anyhow i have bought a 5510 john deere. Wondering if a 12 foot disc with a log or chain harrow behind will do what i want without plowing again? There is no sawd you can see the dirt everywhere at base of the weed stuble. looked at 3 pt 7-9 point chisels that go straight into fround interesting too but i assume still beed to disc after.

Plan on having potatoes and sweet corn. Thiught the disc could also serve for tilling after corn and potatoes.

Thoughts on a disc?

Probably smarter to hire someone with a big disc but i do like the field work.

Cheers

I have little experience pulling discs with anything smaller than an IH856 or IH1066; but I see a potential for cross purposes here.

According to TractorData, a JD5510 has a respectable 82PTO HP. It's a nice, strong little tractor.

But it might weigh as little as 6000 lbs.

I speculate (the operative word being speculate) that... If you get a set of 12' discs... and then try to weigh them down and set them to cut/level your ground in one pass...

A. You'll be back at 1mph again... and really won't cut very well.
B. You'll be pulling the guts out of that nice little engine.
C. You'll end up having to unload the discs or change their setting to pull them efficiently... and they will just kinda scratch the surface and not level, regardless of how many passes you do.

I look at this by analogy to woodworking.

If you can't pull the discs in a "cutting" mode... it would be like trying to plane rough lumber with a very wide belt sander and 220 grit sandpaper...

My advice would be to measure the width of your 5510 and get a set of cutting discs that will cover the width of the tractor, no wider... and then set those suckers deep... get your ground level.

You can always unload them and change the setting later to do your finishing passes.

Just like with woodworking... you need to gouge, cut and level, before you go wide and smooth...

 

[will-max dairy]

Weight and size specs below.

JD makes good tractors. I'm just saying that, the last time I pulled a set of 12' discs with an 856... if you had the discs set to really cut, it made the 856 grunt, and they pulled hard...

For a 100HP, 10,000 lb tractor.

I think that 5510 will be overmatched at 12', unless the discs are just scratching the surface.

 

[will-max dairy]

And... honestly... it was years ago at my dad's place that I pulled discs.

Later on, when we got our own place and a 70HP tractor... I bought a 7' tiller... done... no plows, no discs, no pulvimulchers, no drags, no disc-like thingy pulling a old mattress behind it... One piece of equipment.

To seed large areas with "cover crops"... I till to get the ground smooth (actually, I should say... levelled...after two tillage passes... shallow then deep)... then wait a day to dry out clay clods... broadcast seed... then set the tiller to about a1" depth and do a quick, superficial tillage with the apron of the tiller set to just barely sweep the ground.... done... so I use it as the planter too.

Oh wait... I do have a set of cultivators... so... OK... two piece of equipment... a tiller and cultivators....

 

[showcrop]

And... honestly... it was years ago at my dad's place that I pulled discs.

Later on, when we got our own place and a 70HP tractor... I bought a 7' tiller... done... no plows, no discs, no pulvimulchers, no drags, no disc-like thingy pulling a old mattress behind it... One piece of equipment.

To seed large areas with "cover crops"... I till to get the ground smooth... then broadcast seed... then set the tiller to about a1" depth and do a quick, superficial tillage.... done... so I use it as the planter too.

Oh wait... I do have a set of cultivators... so... OK... two piece of equipment... a tiller and cultivators....

The coop extension I believe, put in a bulletin that for a good seeding you wanted it tilled to the degree that when you drive over it with your truck that you will sink in 1.5 inches. A rototiller is going to till fairly deep in one pass and leave it light and fluffy but it will be full of air and won't hold moisture.

 

[will-max dairy]

The coop extension I believe, put in a bulletin that for a good seeding you wanted it tilled to the degree that when you drive over it with your truck that you will sink in 1.5 inches. A rototiller is going to till fairly deep in one pass and leave it light and fluffy but it will be full of air and won't hold moisture.

I appreciate this... but also... I know my ground around here. We are on clay. It holds moisture like a kiln-fired porcelain tea cup... regardless of what you do. We can't just disc before seeding and get the "tilth" to put seeds in. The ground discs up in clods. Usually, no matter what I'm doing whether planting potatoes or seeding ground, I need to till shallow.... deep .... shallow...

Shallow to break up the surface trash/sod. Deep to build a seed bed. Then, hope for about a day of sunshine to dry the surface...

Then till shallow to break the dry clods... If seeding, I would broadcast seed before this pass... and till it in to the broken clods. If planting a garden, I would plant the seeds after this shallow tillage.

If the ground was different, all I would do is put a set of heavy rollers behind the tiller on the final pass... or maybe just roll the seed in.

I didn't say that using a tiller is fool proof. No tillage method is... we have to learn and adapt to use what we have at our disposal.

I'm a degreed person with a technical degree, and I can appreciate that extension services are useful... but information from the extension service in sandy dry prairie/desert in New Mexico isn't of much use to someone on clay ground on top of a hillside in NYS.... and vice versa.

 

[showcrop]

I appreciate this... but also... I know my ground around here. We are on clay. It holds moisture like a kiln-fired porcelain tea cup... regardless of what you do. We can't just disc before seeding and get the "tilth" to put seeds in. The ground discs up in clods. Usually, no matter what I'm doing whether planting potatoes or seeding ground, I need to till shallow.... deep .... shallow...

Shallow to break up the surface trash/sod. Deep to build a seed bed. Then, hope for about a day of sunshine to dry the surface...

Then till shallow to break the dry clods... If seeding, I would broadcast seed before this pass... and till it in to the broken clods. If planting a garden, I would plant the seeds after this shallow tillage.

If the ground was different, all I would do is put a set of heavy rollers behind the tiller on the final pass... or maybe just roll the seed in.

I didn't say that using a tiller is fool proof. No tillage method is... we have to learn and adapt to use what we have at our disposal.

I'm a degreed person with a technical degree, and I can appreciate that extension services are useful... but information from the extension service in sandy dry prairie/desert in New Mexico isn't of much use to someone on clay ground on top of a hillside in NYS.... and vice versa.

I don't know of any national extension service, maybe there is one. The Cooperative extension service was founded by Congress in 1862 by setting up a funding mechanism for the land grant colleges to extend teaching out to the communities. There are 200 land grant colleges, so obviously there is more than one per state. It is their responsibility to be available to support agriculture in many different ways, including best management practices for many areas such as farming in wet areas, manure handling, handling different soil types. Their recommendations are taylor made to specific areas down at county levels. Here in NH we have an extension office in each county.