Which to Buy -- 27xx or 29xx?

[radara4077]

I come seeking the wealth of knowledge I've seen displayed from the many contributors on this forum with regards to a rather specific question.

I am in the market for a cab tractor with a loader. MFWD is a must. I bleed green, having grown up around the Mannheim models 830, 2630, 2040, 2350 (SoundGuard and open station both), and more recently 2550. I also have logged several hours in a pair of Waterloo 4230s.

I know there's some animosity on here towards the Mannheim tractors, but I'd like to set that aside for a moment. The smallest of the Waterloo machines that fits my needs (the 4050) sits a great deal outside my price range, and almost above my horsepower requirements (no sense in burning more fuel than I have to). So in short, the Mannheim line-up better suits my farm.

I am of the firm opinion that the xx50 and xx55 series tractors were and still are the best that Deere has ever produced. Specifically, I am looking for a tractor somewhere between the 2750 and 3255 models. Not looking for another color.

That being said, this is a long-term endeavor. Potentially even a year or more out in the future. I'm just trying to gather all the info I can before making my decision.

It appears, based on what I've seen for sale both currently and in the past 6 months, that the 27xx models with cab and MFWD go for just as high, if not higher, than the 29xx models with cab and MFWD. At face value, that doesn't make much sense, as the 29xx is 10 more HP, plus 2 more cylinders and a larger frame.

Could it be that the 29xx isn't as "good" a tractor, all around? Could it be that the 29xx's were bought originally as more of a "workhorse" and are now more "worn out" because of that, reflecting a "lower" price? Or could it be that the 27xx is a "better" tractor overall than the 29xx? Questions abound as I scratch my head at this apparent discrepancy.

If anyone has any insight into this mystery, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Also, if anyone has an opinion on which of these models would be best (2750/2755, 2950/2955, 3050/3055 [European imports?], 3150/3155, 3255 [doesn't appear to be a 3250?]), I'd love to hear it!

 

[D-]

4040

 

[radara4077]

I didn't think the 4040 came with MFWD? I've heard "not good" things about the reliability of the hydraulic FWA on the 40 series and back...

 

[buickanddeere]

(quoted from post at 11:46:49 12/15/17) I come seeking the wealth of knowledge I've seen displayed from the many contributors on this forum with regards to a rather specific question.

I am in the market for a cab tractor with a loader. MFWD is a must. I bleed green, having grown up around the Mannheim models 830, 2630, 2040, 2350 (SoundGuard and open station both), and more recently 2550. I also have logged several hours in a pair of Waterloo 4230s.

I know there's some animosity on here towards the Mannheim tractors, but I'd like to set that aside for a moment. The smallest of the Waterloo machines that fits my needs (the 4050) sits a great deal outside my price range, and almost above my horsepower requirements (no sense in burning more fuel than I have to). So in short, the Mannheim line-up better suits my farm.

I am of the firm opinion that the xx50 and xx55 series tractors were and still are the best that Deere has ever produced. Specifically, I am looking for a tractor somewhere between the 2750 and 3255 models. Not looking for another color.

That being said, this is a long-term endeavor. Potentially even a year or more out in the future. I'm just trying to gather all the info I can before making my decision.

It appears, based on what I've seen for sale both currently and in the past 6 months, that the 27xx models with cab and MFWD go for just as high, if not higher, than the 29xx models with cab and MFWD. At face value, that doesn't make much sense, as the 29xx is 10 more HP, plus 2 more cylinders and a larger frame.

Could it be that the 29xx isn't as "good" a tractor, all around? Could it be that the 29xx's were bought originally as more of a "workhorse" and are now more "worn out" because of that, reflecting a "lower" price? Or could it be that the 27xx is a "better" tractor overall than the 29xx? Questions abound as I scratch my head at this apparent discrepancy.

If anyone has any insight into this mystery, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Also, if anyone has an opinion on which of these models would be best (2750/2755, 2950/2955, 3050/3055 [European imports?], 3150/3155, 3255 [doesn't appear to be a 3250?]), I'd love to hear it!

Some people claim that the last portion of 40 series production and the 50/55 series have fewer bugs and better starting.

 

[radara4077]

buickanddeere, are you talking about the late 40 and 50/55 runs of the Mannheim tractors, that seem to get a lot of flack, in general?

 

[Mike M]

I don't know about the price differences ? Maybe since the 29xx are bigger many just get the next up waterloos ? My uncle had a 2940 with a loader and 4x4 but no cab. I really liked that tractor. Really smooth running 6 cyl. engine. I could back wagons up way better with it for some reason ? Sat higher than the 2630 so you can see better and didn't steer quite so fast to bind me up quicker is what I'm thinking ? I still can't believe the mud hole he drove that 2940 thru to come get me pulled out on the 2630 ! IIRC he later ended up with a 2555 ? and a loader. But this would not lift stuff up as well and wasn't as stable as the larger 2940.
These machines are getting some age on them but good ones that were well cared for can still be around.

 

[tim s]

I'm sure D meant 4050,,and I would agree,,look through the sale books and 29's are getting cheaper each month...

 

[radara4077]

Mike, did that 2940 have a hydraulic FWA? How reliable was it?

Love our 2630. Reliable and a horse, for its class.

You may be right, maybe since the 29xx and the 40xx sit on the same frame (right?), people may just be going for the Waterloo tractor.

tim s, I'm glad I'm not the only one who's noticed that. I wonder why its happening, though?

 

[NY 986]

I think that it matters more the number of hours and how the tractor was used as opposed to whether a 25XX or 29XX tractor. As hinted at a Mannheim that was used extensively for heavy tillage will have quite a bit of life pulled out of it. If I had to pick I think the 6 cylinder out of a 29XX if preferable to the 4 cylinder but not by a lot. The big draw back of a 29XX is a lot of farmers bought them thinking that they would go toe to toe on all chores versus a 4040 or 4050 where again the Waterloo's were built for extensive drawbar work. I agree with those who maintain the Waterloo hydraulics have it all over the Mannheim's.

 

[radara4077]

NY 986, that kind of jives with what I was thinking--the "bigger" 29xx (although only 10 HP "bigger"), appealed more as a "big workhorse" than the 27xx, which could be seen more as a "light chore" tractor.

Of course, size of operation is key--right now, my Dad's 2550 is *the* workhorse/chore/loader/tillage/baler/puller on the farm. But our small size puts us in the minority on a national scale, even back when these tractors were new.

I tend to think I'd prefer a 6 cylinder for the more "taxing" jobs than a 4 cylinder, as well. But, I'd rather have a 4 cylinder that will hold up better than a 6 cylinder, if everything else is equal.

It's a tough call. I just wonder if there's anything inherent in the models themselves that makes the 27xx worth more than the 29xx, or if it's as has been hypothesized here, that the 29xx's have been, over all, "rode hard and put up wet" more than the 27xx's...

 

[Mike M]

The 2940 was a MFWD I don't think the small ones ever had hyd. front wheel assist.

 

[radara4077]

Really?! I thought the MFWD was rolled out with the xx50 series across the board? I didn't know *any* xx40 series Deeres had the MFWD.

Now I'm off to look at 2940 prices...

 

[Mike M]

I wonder if the prices are dropping because of all the NEWER tractors Deere sold in that size ranges ? I see a lot of those for sale used now too.

 

[Mike M]

Tractor house has 1 2940 mfwd and loader with cab for $ 24,500 that doesn't seem dropped to me ?

 

[NY 986]

IMO the six cylinder should out last the 4 cylinder and there is no balancer system to fail in a 6 cylinder. I should note that thanks to our knowledgable posters the cab electrical system is far better in a Waterloo versus a Mannheim.

 

[NY 986]

That 2940 would have to have well below 1,000 original hours for me to even think about that for the price indicated. I've seen 4050's and 4250's listed for that kind of money. Several years ago I was at a sale and saw two 4250's with SGB and MFWD that had north of 10,000 hours but looked pretty strait sell in the low 20's. I think I would go with one of them over a 2940 no matter how nice the 2940 was.

 

[radara4077]

Right now, you can't find a 4x5x Deere on Tractorhouse with MFWD and cab for under $30 grand. At least not from what I saw...

 

[centash]

Had both. 2955 is a considerable chunk more tractor than a 27, and is a better
machine for heavy field work. 27 being shorter, is much handier for loader work. 29
cab has no floor hump as does a 27 cab. Both of mine were ...are... good tractors,
just sold my 2755 open with loader for about 90 percent of what a 2955 with cab would
sell for. New, with all options, a 2755 was close in price to a 2955, which came with
those options as standard equipment. For medium duty loader work, the 2755 would be a
better choice and easier on fuel. Both are tractors that would easily last 10000
hours plus with decent maintenance.
Ben

 

[radara4077]

Thanks, Ben!

Right now, we have a 2550 MFWD open station with a loader, and an old 1958 Ford 841 that we farm with. We do haying, primarily, but the 2550 also does a bit of tillage in the spring, as well as other general chores around the farm, and feeds hay rolls in the winter.

Looking to relegate the 2550 to a secondary role with this new purchase. The new tractor (whatever it ends up being) will be our primary "chore" tractor, as well as our hay roller, and winter feeder (hence the strong desire for a cab).

It would be nice to have enough horses in the new tractor to open up the possibility of having a feed wagon or even a silage baler sometime down the road, but those are long-term "dreams." I am not even certain if a 29xx would have enough horses to do either of those things.

Interesting perspective on the longer body hampering loader work. My cousin had a 3255 about 10 years ago with a loader, and it was indeed hampered with regards to loader work due to its length, but it more than made up for that in its raw pulling power. I didn't use it enough to see how much that longer body made loader work harder, though...

 

[Hotflashjr]

I had been looking and looking last year into this year for a machine the size you are talking. I looked at 2955's, 3155's, 4050's, 4255's... I was hell bent on finding a 50 or 55 series. After lots of looking I stumbled on a 7400 cab, mfwd and it was better shape, newer, lower hours and cost less than any 55 series I had found within a 8 hour drive from me. I wouldn't trade the 7400 now.

We had a 2555 and a 2550 we got rid of that were replaced by these two machines. The 2550 was mfwd with a loader. Both were starting to have hydraulic issue. I really loved the 2555. It was a great utility tractor but just about too small on the HP for some of the implements we upgraded to.

 

[Mike M]

I just went looking too. Most were more like $ 40,000 !
But then again are they selling ? or dreaming ?
I'd sell my whole fleet of 2 cyl. for the prices I just saw on them at tractor house !

 

[NY 986]

If you are serious about a 4X50 and not pressed timewise then forget Tractorhouse. Check auction house websites such as Mowery's out in Illinois and watch the auction section of regional farm papers of where you are at. There has to be a happy medium between a mint 35,000 dollar tractor and a wore out 18,000 dollar unit that needs 15,000 dollars dumped into it in short order. Just looking at 4X50 tractors it appears that they are off the highs from several years ago when milk was 25 dollars plus and corn was 8 dollars.

 

[radara4077]

Y'all could be right...they could be high on Tractorhouse.

I do know that there aren't many 4xxx tractors around my neck of the woods, period. Most farms in the mountains of Appalachia just aren't big enough for them. As I said earlier, my family had a pair of 4230s when I was growing up, and I got the impression then as now that it was a rarity.

Of the farms around here that *are* big enough for the 4xxx tractors, most spring for newer, shinier CNHs or Kubotas.

 

[Brendon-KS]

The European-built small-frame tractors had mechanical front drive prior to the 50 series. Here's a picture of what the offset
drive looks like on a 2940.

 

[centash]

Don't be afraid to work either of them hard. I put over 100 hours every season on a
2120, similar to a 2350, cutting corn with a one row harvesters, with the temp gauge
touching the red. It also did all the plowing and tillage on 200 workable acres for
over 20 years. It has about 11000 hours on it now, and does all the loader work and
lighter jobs on the farm;had one overhaul, one clutch and a hydraulic pump for
repairs. The 27 I just sold served me well for 4000 hours, had a total of 6000 when
sold, replaced the clutch, but 75 % of its use was loader work. FWIW, it sold for 19k
CAN with a 620 loader. The 2955 I have had since new, pushing 7000 hours, replaced
the head gasket is it's biggest repair. Does all the heavy work, ran a 2 row
harvesters for 20 years as well, 4 by 16 inch plow and 18 foot cultivator, plus it
see about 50 hours blowing snow every winter. The Waterloos are no doubt a better
tractor, but a 4055 was more than 15k over the 2955 when new. On a loader, a 2955
will out perform a 2755, just can't get into those low barns or tight spaces as
handy. You won't go wrong either way.
Good luck!
Ben

 

[JD Seller]

Around here the JD 2950 MFWD just about all where loader tractors. So they get/got beat to death. I have owned several and if the hydraulics are good they are fine for lots of general farm work. Great six cylinder motor. I do not recommend then for heavy field work as the dry clutch was a weakness in my mind. I have changed too many of them over the years. LOL

The JD 2750/2755 usually did not get worked as hard and there are way fewer of them. So the price seems to be higher on them.

 

[Tx Jim]

(quoted from post at 13:47:05 12/15/17) IMO the six cylinder should out last the 4 cylinder and there is no balancer system to fail in a 6 cylinder. I should note that thanks to our knowledgeable posters the cab electrical system is far better in a Waterloo versus a Mannheim.

For sure the electrical system on a Mannheim cab tractor was not one of JD engineers most brilliant moments. I doubt the 359(5.9 L) will be much more if any more economical than the 6076 engine in the 50/55 series rowcrop. IMHO the cab sits to close to tractor on Mannheim tractors to perform much repair without removing cab. As stated the dry clutch is not near as durable as the Perma-clutch.

 

[fdt860]

Maybe you should check them out:
They have a good selection of Mannheim tractors and even 4240S; 4350, and 4250 French spec.
The European 50-55, beside of having the parking brake, the PS and MFWD as standard, also have the finals normally mounted on 4450 also in the 4250 and 4255.


The 4240S and 4350 are very good tractors. Very simple, turns very shap. The 4350 was sold only in 1987 so it is not very old. It has the 4440 final drives with the overdrive quad, but overall is same as 4240S.
The 4240S can be modified easily to run 25MPH+on the road by modifying the quad.

3140 is a tractor that can run 20000 hour, no problem. 3640 was probably not sold in USA under any number. It has a stronger frame than the 3140-2940, it is a good tractor as well, altough it does not have a turbo like the 3650 that replaced it (3255 in USA i think).

 

[fdt860]

https://www.carrollequipment.com/new-products-48

 

[radara4077]

Fascinating discussion, guys! Thank you for all the input!

I've got a lot to think about, and (fortunately or unfortunately), a lot of time to think about it before I can pull the trigger.

Unless I can get a "steal" in terms of price vs. quality, I won't be going for any of the 4x5x tractors--just too many horses for my 50 acres and too many dollars for my wallet.

Looks like that narrows my choices to (in US models):

2750/2755
2940/2950/2955
3150/3155
[no 3250 sold, right?]/3255

I'm leaning towards the bigger models for any future HP needs (feed wagon, silage baler, etc.), but a 27xx would meet my current needs if the price/quality was right.

The search continues...any additional input is more than welcome!