Why would a diesel need ether

[jon f mn]

Most indirect injection engines are that way. Older case, Oliver, MM, cat and others were that way. With those even a good engine is only going to start down to about 20 degrees or so without some help. My cases will start down to about 10 deg with the manifold heater, but below that either is the only way. When they get some se they need it warmer, a tired engine may need it always for first start.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

low compression from broken rings . Because detonation from using ether has broken the rings .

So what explains the first use of ether?

If the rings aren't broken, you won't have to use ether. If you never use ether, the rings won't be broken from using ether. If the rings aren't broken from using ether, you'll never have to use ether. You think maybe someone just woke up and said, "Let's spray some ether in this perfectly good engine for no reason whatsoever, and break the rings?"

Fun fact, engines don't run long with broken rings.

Seems like despite how many times people PROVE that there is no such thing as "addiction to ether" and that "ether destroys engines" is a lie, those myths will never die.

 

[buickanddeere]

So what explains the first use of ether?

If the rings aren't broken, you won't have to use ether. If you never use ether, the rings won't be broken from using ether. If the rings aren't broken from using ether, you'll never have to use ether. You think maybe someone just woke up and said, "Let's spray some ether in this perfectly good engine for no reason whatsoever, and break the rings?"

Fun fact, engines don't run long with broken rings.

Seems like despite how many times people PROVE that there is no such thing as "addiction to ether" and that "ether destroys engines" is a lie, those myths will never die.

 

[buickanddeere]

So what explains the first use of ether?

If the rings aren't broken, you won't have to use ether. If you never use ether, the rings won't be broken from using ether. If the rings aren't broken from using ether, you'll never have to use ether. You think maybe someone just woke up and said, "Let's spray some ether in this perfectly good engine for no reason whatsoever, and break the rings?"

Fun fact, engines don't run long with broken rings.

Seems like despite how many times people PROVE that there is no such thing as "addiction to ether" and that "ether destroys engines" is a lie, those myths will never die.

The problem is the first time with a sound undamaged engine . On a particular cold day , with some one in a hurry
And they did not plug in the block heater . They give the engine enough either to break rings .
In fact , mention plugging in the block heater to some people and they give you a look of stunned or blank disbelief .

 

[buickanddeere]

Most indirect injection engines are that way. Older case, Oliver, MM, cat and others were that way. With those even a good engine is only going to start down to about 20 degrees or so without some help. My cases will start down to about 10 deg with the manifold heater, but below that either is the only way. When they get some se they need it warmer, a tired engine may need it always for first start.

You don’t plug in the coolant block heater instead of using ether ?

 

[showcrop]

Why did they put ether injection systems , from the factory, on all sorts of vehicles if they break piston rings? They must know that not everyone is careful about the dose, whether out of ignorance or complacency.... why would they risk a warranty short block?

Many people are just totally unaware of the different designs and functions of different diesel engines. And from reading YT they get the idea that ether is always bad. I had a Ford 9000 and an IH 5900i with C-15 Caterpillar, that both came from the factory with ether injection systems. Just get it rolling over then press the button on the dash.

 

[buickanddeere]

Many people are just totally unaware of the different designs and functions of different diesel engines. And from reading YT they get the idea that ether is always bad. I had a Ford 9000 and an IH 5900i with C-15 Caterpillar, that both came from the factory with ether injection systems. Just get it rolling over then press the button on the dash.

The button supplied a small metered dose .besides the engine was beefed up some to handle the detonation .
The problem is bubba and his spray can of ether , hand applying a dose .

 

[jon f mn]

You don’t plug in the coolant block heater instead of using ether ?

That is standard practice below freezing, but they still need manifold heat til zero then either if they are in good as new or better. All of mine have the valves set higher than spec to help with starting and it does help, but below 30 none of the 3 I have will start without help. Manifold heat down to10 deg or so then plug in the tank heater and below zero either will be required no matter what. But it doesn't take much, just a shot and while cranking.

 

[da.bees]

Yall don't know how starting tractors below 0 sounds to Central Texans. About the only thing worth doing it is setting hay out and if weather guesser gives heads up a few extras can be set out in advance. Ether is like dynamite , in the right hands it can do a lot of work in a hurry and in the wrong hands it can mess up more than three men and a pair of mules can straighten out in a month.

 

[rustred]

Yall don't know how starting tractors below 0 sounds to Central Texans. About the only thing worth doing it is setting hay out and if weather guesser gives heads up a few extras can be set out in advance. Ether is like dynamite , in the right hands it can do a lot of work in a hurry and in the wrong hands it can mess up more than three men and a pair of mules can straighten out in a month.

I worked in the oil patch for a lot of years . When you’re on a rig move in minus 30 or 40 thank Christ for the starting fluid. You would never get them Jimmie 671’s and 8v92’s started. Electric start on the generator , everything else air start. Plus a tiger torch set in the building to warm it up. I don’t miss that work one bit.

 

[buickanddeere]

I worked in the oil patch for a lot of years . When you’re on a rig move in minus 30 or 40 thank Christ for the starting fluid. You would never get them Jimmie 671’s and 8v92’s started. Electric start on the generator , everything else air start. Plus a tiger torch set in the building to warm it up. I don’t miss that work one bit.

Two stroke Detroit’s have a tolerance for ether that other engines do not have .

 

[Destroked 450]

Two stroke Detroit’s have a tolerance for ether that other engines do not have .

We had a Ford 7600 with a turbocharged 256 ci 4 cylinder, a friend had a similar year Ford A62 wheel loader for his logging operation, it had the same engine as in our tractor
The loader came factory with ether start aid and the tractor did not, his 2008 JD 700 dozer has a button in the dash for ether start
Industrial equipment can be setting on a job site a good distance from an electric service making a block heater of little use, without a little ether no work was going to get done on cold days, most of the industrial engines are built no different than their ag counterparts
Ether used properly will not damage a engine or cause it to become ether dependent, those issues are caused by the individual holding the can

 

[Texasmark]

I am just curious of Why would a diesel tractor need ether . For the first start of the day. I have a friend that says he hast to give it a little ether every morning to start the first time. Rest the day at fires upon its own perfectly.

Low compression due to worn out rings.

 

[Farmall m farmer]

We have a jd 4320 it won’t start anything below 40 without ether and it was professionally rebuilt probably 15 years ago and doesn’t have very many hours on it since you can say what you want but I still believe motors can get ether addicted

 

[Fritz Maurer]

The claim is always broken rings. Why is it never the lands, which are made out of much softer material than cast iron.

 

[Brown David]

The claim is always broken rings. Why is it never the lands, which are made out of much softer material than cast iron.

The lands are what I've always heard gets broken from ether overdoses.

I'm not a diesel guy though, so what do I know.

 

[Texasmark]

My Ford 5200 acts like this.

The engine isn’t exactly fresh.

It might be leaking down a little fuel from the injector pump over night.

It is less noticeable when the battery is fresh and the wiring is good, but that doesn’t eliminate the issue entirely. It’s a lot worse tho if the electrical is a bit weak, starter spins slower….

Obviously cold temps require either, but in the heat of summer this issue is still there.

I bought my first Ford and it was my first diesel. Had 0 diesel experience. It was April here in N. Tx. and the seller had to use Ether to get it to start. That, to an experienced diesel person would have been a very big RED flAG. After all sorts of shenagigans I resolved myself to the fact that it needed an OH. Part of that decision was based upon the fact that the air inlet hose between the air filter behind the grille and the intake manifold was missing and that it was obvious the tractor had a lot of hours and abuse.....but it was my first and I had my head in the clouds as you couldn't find a used diesel like the 3000 anywhere around here at the time. I think I gave about $3500 for it which was way too much for what I found out below.

I tore the engine down (in frame) and I couldn't believe what I found. The tops of the pistons, down to the top compression ring were eroded away. Rings were obviously shot. I decided to do an inframe as I didn't have the equipment, and working alone, wasn't equipped for an engine removal or tractor split. Was going to take my chances.

I took the head to a machine shop that did work for the local Ford dealer and had the head reddone with new pistons, rings, and I think new rods and pins. Bought a set of main bearings too although they weren't worn all that much, but replaced them anyway. I did a good deglazing of the cylinders with an x pattern and a ball hone. Put it all back together, got it running and set the valves.

That was probably in the early '80's. I still have the tractor, use it frequently, starts on its own in a few seconds, only use the "thermostart" on the coldest days in mid winter. I guess I lucked out.

 

[Texasmark]

The 5200 probably has a thermostart system: A fuel line is routed to the front of the intake manifold. A glow plug is part of the plug. A position on the key, or a separate switch applies 12v to the glow plug which in like 30 seconds, has it glowing red-hot. The diesel port is controlled by a temperature sensitive plug which, when the glow plug reaches the right temperature it opens and allows drops of diesel to fall onto the red gowing wires which ignite it........

Some time after activating (ambient temp controlled at the operator's discretion) the drops of diesel ignite into "Great Balls of Fire" (Song by Jerry Lee Lewis) and with the operator having moved the switch on over to START, glow plug still energized, the sucking pistons suck these balls into the combustion chamber and ignite the diesel producing the bang that moves the pistion,

Very simple, very effective, very reliable method to start a diesel engine on a cold day.

On the song, I saw a movie of his once where he was putting on a show in a school auditorium and set the Grand Piano on fire while he continued to play that song. The high school kids went wild with excitement. He had a VIVID imagination to say the least. The Fire Martial was there and didn't share his glee!!!!!

 

[Tony in SD]

The reason we used ether was mostly due to cold temperatures . And no we did not plug them in 10 miles away from the farm in the middle of nowhere because there was no power to plug them in. Early morning springs work temperatures in SD can be below freezing.

 

[cumminstinkerer]

The reason we used ether was mostly due to cold temperatures . And no we did not plug them in 10 miles away from the farm in the middle of nowhere because there was no power to plug them in. Early morning springs work temperatures in SD can be below freezing

Tony, a neat trick my dad and I learned from a dirt contractor out in North Central MT, put a Tee in your trucks heater hose lines and run lines with quick couplers to where you can get to them, do the same thing to the equipment, build a set of jumper hoses long enough to go between the truck equipment, pull up to job in the morning, hook the jumper hoses up, in the correct direction of flow, jump back in the truck and enjoy a cup of coffee, doesn't take long and the equipment is warm enough to start right up. We had our Hydramaxx trencher and the rubber tired backhoe and one dozer setup that way, it worked super slick.