Wide front axle vs tricycle

[mac rusty red 1010]

I have been told that a tricycle front end is more stable on a hillside or a bank because the center of gravity is right on the ground, whereas on a wide front the center of gravity is up on the axle pivot pin that far off the ground witch makes it more top-heavy thoughts


I have some hillsides and terraces and want what is safest thanks

 

[caterpillar guy]

This has been beat to death several times. Any of them can be tipped over if left to some people (idiots). Now if using some brains since common sense is out of use any more they will not be tipping any of them over. If not using any brains then the operator gets exactly what they deserve the Darwin award Hopefully with a pine box to thin the herd.

 

[gene bender]

bad drivers are the biggest cause remember there are those who should not ever be allowed on any tractor like driving around with loaded bucket up in the air too fast and the list goeson

 

[Brendon-KS]

What you were told is not true. The center of gravity of the tractor doesn't change depending on what kind of front axle it has. The type of front axle does, though, change the location of the "tipping axis" of the tractor and how it relates to the center of gravity location. Going from a tricycle to a wide front has the same effect as lowering the center of gravity which increases stability. Some will argue this isn't the case but it is all just math and physics with no opinions or beliefs involved.

In the end what Caterpillar Guy said is correct. Either style of tractor can be tipped over if the operator is careless or if something unexpected happens. From a stability standpoint you'd want to look at a low-slung utility model rather than a taller row crop style of tractor and set the wheels out as wide as possible.

 

[rustyfarmall]

(quoted from post at 22:55:54 01/07/21) I have been told that a tricycle front end is more stable on a hillside or a bank because the center of gravity is right on the ground, whereas on a wide front the center of gravity is up on the axle pivot pin that far off the ground witch makes it more top-heavy thoughts


I have some hillsides and terraces and want what is safest thanks

If the hill side is steep enough to be of concern, stay off of it.

 

[Ellis Kinney]

You can cause a tricycle tractor to tip if you cut too sharp going too fast. I don't think steep hillsides have anything to do with it. Generally tip overs are from loads carried high in a bucket, or hitching high to pull a load, instead of from the drawbar. Ellis

 

[Janicholson]

You are correct. and it is complex. The mass (and inertia of the tractor need to be on the downhill side of an imaginary line between the changing position of that line as more and more of the mass is on that down hill side. The line is not at the contact patch of the rear wheel all the time, as the mass of the rear wheel itself extends beyond the contact patch as the angle increases. (it is why we don't take tires/wheels/hubs off of an axle and roll it around like it was off of a Prius. On the front, the line passes through the down hill front tire (narrow front). in a wide, it passes through the axle pivot point under the bolster. Once the mass is near the line it becomes unstable. I imagine a front end design with a front axle pivot at the top of the radiator. Now the mass must travel even farther down hill to get to that imaginary changing line. SAE race cares are tipped on a platform that assesses their tipping point against specifications in the construction rules. These cars have 2" ground clearance, and one inch suspension travel. We all drive using "seat of the pants" gravitometer risk assessment. I think some of the toy collectors should do some experiments.
Using row crop identical tractor models, one wide, one narrow, use double sticky tape under the right front and rear tires, on a piece of plywood. lifting the board at an angle (put a cushion under it to prevent damage, or do it on a bed) keep measuring the lift distance until tip-over. Jim

 

[DeltaSteve]

Both types of front axles have what is known a '3 point suspension'.Tractors,forklifts,combines have 3 point suspension.An automobile has '4 point suspension'..The wide is just a wee bit more stable,simply the pivot is 2 feet off the ground,not on the ground as a narrow is. Otherwise no difference. If it's too steep for a narrow,it's too steep for the wide. They both tip.Biggest cause of tipping is 'operator error'.

 

[F-Dean]

I have driven a tricycle front end for thousands of hours without any problem -- just use common sense!
I have had more trouble with a tri-cycle M "Climbing" on a steep embankment, especially with a picker on. I once touched the picker elevator on the ground when trying to drive an M with a picker up an embankment. Scared the H**l out of the guy riding with me!

 

[the tractor vet]

Look Everything will fall over and play dead , a Little tractor like a ford will even flip over side ways back wards . Ya have to take in account the center of gravity bigger the tractor the higher the center line is . Up till just a couple years ago every tractor i had was a narrow and here if you want a flat piece of ground you will have to make it lots of hills . We made hay on one 28 acre field that on the one end would bring on the pucker factor to about a 9.7 out of a 10 while mowing and raking . the haybine would shove you when you made the turns at the one end and i found out that when we put the new radials on it became a bigger problem and it was harder coming up the side slope hill because the back end wanted to walk down the side of the hill . Even us old dogs that know what we are doing have to keep our heads on straight while operating . I came close to layen over a combine while shelling corn on one field when all forward motion stopped till i hit the right brake and it lunged forward and started to lean more to the down hill side , Never stuffed something into rev. so fast and turned the back end down hill running down corn . All the grain in the bin shifted making it more down hill heavy . You as a new comer might think about a newer tractor with a ROPS and a SEAT BELT , RPOS's only work if you ware a SEAT BELT.

 

[Destroked 450]

For your hillsides and terraces find yourself a lower profile utility tractor rather than a row crop model with a higher center of gravity.
Due to their lower profile design no utility models came with tricycle front axles.
Although it doesn't happen often I have seen a tractor pivot over until the wide front axle hit the pivot stop stopping the tractor from rolling over, a tricycle model would have keep going over.

As others have said once a tractor leans over beyond it's center of gravity it will turn over, row crop models will reach the point sooner than the lower profile utility models.

 

[rustred]

if you want old and safest , stick with the standard models.

 

[rustred]

if you want old and safest , stick with the standard models, lower to the ground. no difference than these guys jacking up there trucks a foot . driving down the hyway hitting the rhubarb and flipping it over.

 

[used red MN]

Mac, I would disagree with what you were told as others have said it is a simple matter physics and geometry. I will add that the difference between to two is in my opinion not nearly as severe as many portray it to be. On our farm we had 2 Hs, an M, a 300 and 350 all had double tire tricycle fronts, the land was not flat and it had terraces and water ways. No problems, just needed to use your head. I currently own the M, a couple years back I was working cleaning up some trees to give mom a better view of the road when exiting her driveway at the farm. I piled the trees in the timber of pasture next to the road. To do this I pulled diagonally through the grader ditch, sometimes with a bucket full of brush on the trip loader. The way I have heard people talk on here about tricycle front tractors I am sure they would have abandoned ship as I passed through the ditch. What some people don’t take into account is there is some additional stability due to the distance of the tread width between the double tire front.

 

[Destroked 450]

Who ever told you a tricycle fronts center of gravity was on the ground lied to you big time, the center of gravity is in accordance to the tractor height and weight along with tire thread width no mater what front axle it has.
Two tractors of the same model and height, one with tricycle and the other with wide front put on a tilt table will both row over at about the same angle, but a lower profile utility model with tires spaced the same as the others will still be stable at that same angle because it has a lower center of gravity.
The lower in height and wider in thread width the more stable the tractor will be
In thread width I talking about how far apart the tires are not how wide a tire is.

 

[1946 BN IHC]

Just to chime in and ask what will you be doing on the hills [plowing, seeding, cutting hay, tilling] all make a difference taking from what the others have said. If it is just cutting " hay or grass or to keep the weeds down the lower the center of gravity the better.
Let me expound on my story of years ago. The tractor ye restored in the past 5 years [IHC Farmall BN near 60 inches centerline rear tires double tricycle front] rear wheels set all the way wide close to 80 inch c/l. cultivators on set for wide row corn. Coming near wide open on throtle sharp right turn hitting a 32 inch high obstruction. Left rear wheel air born for several feet. very scared 10 year old.
Moral of the story from my point of view. Since the BN has a low center of gravity and allowing that the wheels were out wider than regular kept the tractor form rolling over.
NOW if all you are doing is keeping the land and grass in decent shape >>as the others have said a Utility type tractor is better for heavier FARMING or for my money the B or BN series with a belly or hay knife belly or rear mount or trail mower;

Best to you Happy New Year >>>KEEP SAFE AT ALL TIMES><<<

 

[Longknife]

""""""Coming near wide open on throtle sharp right turn hitting a 32 inch high obstruction""""""

That looks more like operator error to me!!!???? Slow it down, do not make sharp turns under wide open throtte and for do not run over 32 inch high objects!!!!!

I operated a hobby farm from '81 to '99 and i used a Farmall H with a narrow front end. This 40 acre farm was high on the bluffs overlooking the Mississippi river. There was only about 5 acres of level ground that I maintained. All the rest was hilly and wooded. I went into the woods, hills and valleys pulling a single axle trailer , crossing the creek, cutting firewood, etc.. clearing paths etc. I never once had a dangerous experience or was afraid of being injured. I do remember a man that lived right on top of the bluff he got too close one day and went over, he didn't survive. He had a tractor with a wide front end but it was not the tractors fault!!!!!

 

[1946 BN IHC]

To reiterate I was 10 or11 >>>>>""" THE MORAL OF THE STORY >>>> <<<< ALWAS ERR ON THE SIDE OF SAFETY IN ALL ONE DOES, WALKING, RIDING, DRIVING, EVEN USING A SHAVING with a RAZOR [hihi} chose wisely on the side of safety in all one does.
Wm.

 

[C.Amick]

I think it has more to do with the height of the center of gravity of the tractor.