wiring problems on Super C

[johnarlyce]

I had my alternator changed from a three wire to a one wire. I guess I should have left it alone. On the 3-wire setup, there was main post and tabs A & B. B tab wire was a charging wire. A tab wire was sandwiched between two 10 gauge wires that were located on main post of alt. The wires were in rough shape, frayed, broke, etc. I'm 62 years old and i believe my memory is starting to fail a little. I can't remember where they connected under the steering box. My ammeter has a positive post and a negative post. My on/off pull switch also has a pos. & neg. screw connection. Then there's the wires running from the starter push-in button. One runs to the voltage reducer then to pos. side of coil. I'm totally confused right now. The tractor was converted from a 6 volt system to a 12 volt system. Can anyone send me correct wiring instructions? Greatly appreciated from a very unskilled senior.

 

[old]

On a 1 wire set up the charge wire from the alternator goes to the non-load side of the amp gauge. I.E. amp gauge should have one side with more then one wire and one side with just 1 wire and the 1 wire side is the non load side or also battery side and the side with more the one wire should have at least one wire going to the ignition switch

 

[johnarlyce]

so is the positive side of the ammeter the load side. It is marked with a -sign and a +sign? Thanks for your previous reply. Points me in the right direction anyway!

 

[Mike Groom]

Hook your wire from the alternator to one side of the ammeter,if it discharges,hook it to the other side,problem solved!

 

[johnarlyce]

the tractor quit running about three weeks ago. I'm digging into my wallet weekly trying to figure out what the problem-problems are. Rebuilt starter, new 6-volt coil, new starter push-in button, one side pos.side of battery connects to, the other side cable runs down to starter, points fine, plugs fine, firing order correct, fuse not blown, rebuilt Zenith carb, fresh clean gas. Turns over but won't start. 1951 Super C...

 

[old]

If you have a - ground system the load side of the amp gauge should be +. Having an alternator says to me you stand a 99.9% chance you have - ground since very few alternators are made for + ground

 

[old]

Time for some simple trouble shooting

#1 Check that you have a good blue white spark tha twill jump a 1/4 inch gap or more at the center wire of the distributor cap and at all 4 plug wires. No spark or weak spark good chance the points need to be cleaned and or replaced. If you have a good spark go to #2. Pull the carb drain plug and let the gas flow. It should have a good steady flow that will fill a pint jar in under 3 minutes and yes catch it in a pint jar.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

This is the wiring diagram for a Delco 1-wire alternator:

Thing is if you've got spark the alternator wiring is not the reason why your tractor won't run...

 

[John T]

Rich, don't take this disrespectful or as a personal attack or get your shorts in a wad lol. I appreciate all your help, know you mean well, and all of us make mistakes I sure do mine grrrrrrrrrrrr

HOWEVER ITS MY OPINION with all due respect if its wired as you stated, the ammeter will NOT correctly measure the net (alternator in minus loads out) current INTO (Charging) or OUT OF (Discharging) the battery!!!!!!!


You state "On a 1 wire set up the charge wire from the alternator goes to the non-load side of the amp gauge.
I.E. amp gauge should have one side with more then one wire and one side with just 1 wire and the 1 wire side is the non load side or also battery side"


THE CORRECT ANSWER IN MY OPINION IS The charge wire from the Alternator goes to the LOAD (NOT "non-load")
side of the amp gauge.

For your and others information the correct amp gauge wiring in my opinion (plus wiring diagrams) is:

1) Ammeters charge wire (or BAT terminal if it were a Genny and Voltage Regulator) goes to LOAD (Not battery) side of
gauge and that IS NOT the "non-load side" as you stated.

2) Loads such as an Ignition Switch or lights are fed off the LOAD (not battery) side of an amp gauge

3) Often on many small simple tractors and amp gauges, the amp gauges "battery" or "non-load" terminal has only one
wire, and its a wire that gets to and charges the battery post often wired to where the big battery cable attaches
to a start switch or solenoid

4) The battery side of the amp gauge often has just the one wire (to battery) while the other side, the LOAD side,
often has at least two or more wires, one to alternator or BAT on a VR,,,,, other to lights and Ignition loads.


EXPLANATION If you wired the alternator to the "non load" side of the ammeter as you stated, THE AMMETER WOULDNT BE READING THE ALTERNATORS CHARGING CURRENT as the current is NOT flowing through the ammeter. HOWEVER, if the alternator is wired to the LOAD (non battery) side of the ammeter where lights and ignition loads are wired, the ammeter is correctly reading net current into or out of the battery. THE AMMETER CANT SENSE ALTERNATOR CURRENT IF THE ALTERNATOR IS WIRED EFFECTIVELY DIRECT TO THE BATTERY AND DOESNT PASS THROUGH THE AMMETER

The picture is from Bob M's wiring diagram and is for a simple ammeter (2 wires on LOAD side and 1 wire on Battery "non-load" side) and as I stated the alternators charge wire is equivalent to the BAT terminal on a Voltage Regulator for purposes of where to wire the charging source

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO if you disagree with my or the diagrams wiring that's fine, I respect your opinion and we can agree to disagree no problem, but I still think my ammeter wiring and Bob M's diagram is correct, I wonder how others think it should be wired?????? REMEMBER were talking about the charge wire from an Alternator or the output from a Generator (on VR's BAT terminal) as electrically equivalent for the purposes of where to connect to an ammeter (Load or non-load side) so please don't confuse the issue.

I say the alternators charge wire (or BAT from a VR) wires to the LOAD side of an ammeter BUT HEY IVE BEEN WRONG OFTEN AND MAY BE AGAIN SO NO WARRANTY LOL

HOPE THIS HELPS YOU AND ALL HERE

Best wishes God Bless and Happy New Year

John T

 

[John T]

I agree with that wiring diagram. In all diagrams I've ever looked at,,,,,,,,,, and all the tractors I worked on (a ton I was a used tractor dealer), the alternators charge wire connects to the LOAD side of the ammeter (NOT the
non-load side). The LOAD side also feeds battery voltage to loads like lights or ignition etc. HOWEVER there's often only one wire over on the non-load battery terminal. If the alternator wired to the non-load battery side of the ammeter it wouldn't read alternator current as its NOT passing through the ammeter.

John T

 

[John T PS]

Rich, Thanks to the fine gentleman above here is another wiring diagram for an alternator this time and it also shows the alternators charge wire connects to the LOAD (NOT non-load) side of the ammeter where LOADS like Lights and Ignition are fed. That's how all the old tractors I worked on were connected and all the diagrams I ever looked at showed, but again each are entitled to their own opinions and no warranty whatsoever I'm right lol Ive been wrong manyyyyyy times and will be again grrrrrrrrr

Hope this helps, take care my friend

John T

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

BTW, these are Bob M's wiring diagrams.

Speaking of which, does anybody have a reliable link for those diagrams these days? I can find some of them on google, but I haven't come across them as a complete set lately.

 

[bass]

(quoted from post at 11:23:42 01/04/17) This is the wiring diagram for a Delco 1-wire alternator:

Thing is if you've got spark the alternator wiring is not the reason why your tractor won't run...

something else that might help. in the above drawing, run the ground wire from the "-" post the one of the bolts that hold the starter on. I did this on my Super C and M and it made all the difference..

bass

 

[johnarlyce]

Are you talking about the battery neg post to a bolt that holds the starter on? Just wondering. Would it be alright to email you with information I have? John

 

[johnarlyce]

(reply to post at 12:28:30 01/04/17) this diagram is for a positive ground system. My Super C has been converted from a 6 volt to a 12 volt system. Still can't figure out the problem that is stopping it from starting, even after following everyone's advice. I guess I'll take her to the scrap yard next!

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

These tractors can be made to run with some basic engine troubleshooting skills that everyone really should know.

First thing you need to do is figure out if it's really wired correctly. The wiring on a Super C is so utterly simple with a one-wire alternator, you could just rip all the old wiring off, throw it away, start over, and have it completely rewired in half an hour.

Next, you need to determine if your starter switch is good. Do you have spark? Pull the center wire off the distributor cap, hold the end 1/4" the block, turn on the ignition, and crank it over. You should get a blue SNAP-SNAP-SNAP-SNAP-SNAP coming from the tip of that wire.

No snap? Could be one of several things. Bad ignition switch. Bad coil. Bad condenser. Bad points. Bad distributor wire...

Once you get that far, we'll move on to the next thing to check.

 

[johnarlyce]

That is the main problem right now! The wiring...The gentleman that I got the tractor from didn't quite put the wiring in correctly as far as i can figure out. Before I let the alternator man change this one over to a one wire alt, it had 4 wires. Main charging wire consisted of two running off the charge post, one short wire that also ran off that post to tab 1, and one wire that hung on one of the hood latch hooks that needed to be touched to the main where the first three were hooked in order for the alt. to start charging. I didn't take a picture of this setup because i thought i could visualize where they all went upon hooking them back up. And yes, i did tear out all the old and attempted to install when i started running into problems. You're right! The wiring is my #1 priority right now and i'm stuck real deep in my own misery.