Wisconsin VG4D

[Gilmorejn]

I purchased a skid steer with the Wisconsin VG for the engine as a project. It had low compression. We rebuilt the top and cleaned it all up and painted it. Im struggling to get it time to properly. I believe its a timing issue. Everything I find in forums and online is discussing the electronic mag. This does not have one but rather has a distributor and they upgraded that you a pertronix electronic ignition. When I do get it started, it only runs for a very short time. Generally one cylinder stays cold. In this case it appears to be number two. It gets carbon real quick and floods. Ive tried resetting the top dead center aligning the proper marks, turning the distributor every which direction. Same results if I get it to takeoff. Lots of popping and crackling. I feel like the timing order is not correct.

 

[Gilmorejn]

VG4D

 

[Buddy]

1342 firing order.

 

[Keith True]

Very good chance you are going to find you have the plug wires on wrong.Also,if you are still using the original Wisconsin charging system instead of an add-on alternator,that Pertronix may not respond well to it.Lots of voltage spikes and dips that electronic sensors don't like,but points and condenser doesn't care much about.Wired wrong after being worked on seems to be a very common problem with them.Usually the rotation of the distributer gets mixed up.You do time those with a timing light while running.

 

[Duner Wi]

Might be something here to help.
https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=467113

 

[rrlund]

I don't want to hijack the post, but does that mean too, that electronic ignition would work better on a tractor with an alternator than one with a generator, or doesn't it matter in that case. Only reason I ask is that I have electronic ignition on one with an alternator and have been considering putting it on one with a generator, unless you're saying it would be a mistake?

 

[Steve@Advance]

Electronic ignition conversion works equally well with an alternator or generator as long as the charging system is working properly.

If the one with a generator is positive ground, the ignition conversion kit needs to be made for positive ground, and of course the correct voltage.

If you plan on converting the tractor to an alternator, changing the polarity, or voltage, do that first so you don't have to buy a different ignition module.

And the coil must also be the correct voltage or properly equipped with a resistor. Get it wrong it can run poorly or damage the coil or the ignition module!

 

[rrlund]

Ya, it's on that tractor that I posted about the other day that keeps fouling a plug. I thought maybe EI with a flame thrower coil might make a difference if I don't get it solved any other way. I did some searching and could only find negative ground at first, but I kept digging and found a positive ground. No intention of cobbling an alternator on to something that works. I don't know if I'll stoop to the EI route or not, just wanted to double check before I threw money away if it wasn't going to work.

Thanks.

 

[Keith True]

Using the Pertronix on a Model A Ford with a stock generator and cutout does not end well.If you lose a connection,the generator can spike up to 40 volts,and the module is destroyed.Older Wisconsin charging systems with the mechanical regulator will do the same thing.If your tractor is fouling one plug,you have something wrong,and it needs to be found and fixed.Electronic ignition will just be a bandaid covering up whatever is wrong.If point ignition is correct it will run right.You can file,sand,and patch point ignition,with electronic you are dead in the water.

 

[Gilmorejn]

And with that firing order and a distributor that rotates counterclockwise correct. So you would number that 1342 in the counter clockwise order, correct?

 

[Gilmorejn]

Cant use the timing light to time it because I cant get it running long enough. Can I time it just cranking it over with the plugs out? Also, how do I determine if the alternator is sufficient for the per Tronics upgrade? The firing order is 1342 in a counter, clockwise rotation, correct?

 

[Steve@Advance]

If your ignition system is healthy, good components, making a good spark, then converting it won't solve the problem.

The 'flame thrower' coil is an advertising gimmick, it won't produce any higher voltage than it takes to jump the gap. Its only advantage is with a high compression, high revving engine, which gives it no advantage on a tractor!

The only advantage of the electronic ignition is reliability. No physical parts to wear out.

 

[Duner Wi]

1324 CCW is correct. Cyl 1 and 3 are left bank .

 

[Keith True]

First,what flavor of skidsteer are you working on? Some of them got away from using the integral Wisconsin setup,and used Delco alternators hung in various places,anywhere they could hang a pully.Also,some machines have the engines positioned so the distributer is miserable to get at,and is VERY easy to screw it up.Is your flywheel facing the front,left side,or rear of the machine? The cylinder numbers will be stamped on the tin right near the spark plug holes.That will eliminate any confusion as to whats left,right,or front or rear.

 

[Gilmorejn]

1324? Is that a typo? I have been using 1342.

 

[Gilmorejn]

The skid steer is an old John Deere. Probably from the 1970s. Wisconsin vg4d is the engine. Mounts in there in line with the fly wheel facing the rear and the distributor very tight to the left side. Pretty confident I ve got the cylinders labeled correctly and the distributor labeled correctly. They are also stamped in the tens and readable. The timing marks on the fly will are readable also.

 

[Duner Wi]

1342 is correct, Sorry.

 

[DIM]

Years ago I overhauled a Wisconsin v 4. I could not get it to run.My tractor dealer told me to just put the plug wire on 1234. The valves will decide the firing order. He said it fires every time the piston is on top dead center. That is why it has a crackling sound because it's burning unburnt gas on the exhaust Stoke. Your may not be this way. Like I said it was a long time ago

 

[Duner Wi]

Your way works good for an odd fire V4 with full speed magneto or battery ignition. Waste spark ignition.
Not so good with even fire 1/2 speed distributor. I think I have this correct.

 

[rustred]

firing order 1342,.. number one cyl. is right above the distributor. number one wire should be at 3:00 oclock position. then you put the other #3 wire in counter clockwise the 4 and 2. BUT make sure the number one cyl is at 9:00 position by getting it at tdc and see if the rotor is pointing to 9:00 oclock. number 2 cyl. is across on opposite side. then back to distributor side for number 3 then across for number 4. i am sure you dont have the firing order correct, that is the reason you have a cold cyl. and fouled plugs. its not timing doing that even though it can be out also.

 

[Gilmorejn]

Can you explain the number one cylinder at TDC and the rotor pointing at 9 o clock position a little better? I am sure I have my firing order correct now! And I ve got my wires on in the correct order and CCW on the distributor. But when I have the number one cylinder at TDC on the compression stroke, I have the rotor set to point at 3 o clock so it fires on the number one cylinder on takeoff? What do you mean by top dead center compression stroke for number one and 9 o clock on the rotor?

 

[Janicholson]

My shot at this, more a mechanical set of ideas. With your thumb in #1plug hole turn by hand until pressure is felt (a cotton ball will do this as well) then roll the engine till TDC. The rotor should now be pointing to the cap tower attached to ##1 plug wire. Then turn the engine gently and feel for compression in the #3 hole. The rotor should be pointing so that it will pass the cap tower for #3 wire. Do the same for #4 cylinder next, then #2. This should be close enough to run. Jim
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