wont start after overhaul

[Rozie]

So I'm done with my overhaul and I can't get it to start. In fact I can't get it to turn over unless I jump it and even then it seems very labored. It for sure doesn't even seem to be turning fast enough to start. I adjusted my tappets while the lifters were sitting on the heel of the cam per the manual so I don't think that is the problem. Although I could see that making a difference if I loosened them up. I greased everything with assembly lube also. Things just seem to be tight. I was able to turn it with a wrench while adjusting the tappets etc.

 

[HCooke]

Try pull starting it. Use 3rd gear.

 

[Rozie]

I will give that a try. Why do I have this funny feeling I will be leaving a big rubber mark down the road. Is that usual for things to seem really tight and not start with a 6V battery or even jump?

 

[oldtanker]

Yea that can be a problem even with 12 volt. As long as you are sure your bearings clearances are good you should be OK. Most likely just plain friction of the new rings. Did you lube the cylinder walls prior to installing the pistons?

Rick

 

[Rozie]

My bearing clearances should be golden. I had the crank turned and I ordered new bearings to accommodate. I lubed the walls during install. Is pull start pretty standard for a new motor? I'm worried about burning up my starter

 

[teddy52food]

Those new oil seals on the crankshaft put a lot of drag on it at first. Pull it & make sure it has oil pressure before turning on the ign. It will loosen up after running.

 

[R Geiger]

Did you use plasta gage to check for bearing clerance? a turned crqnk and new bearings to fit is not enough. you really need to check the clearance.
But if you turned it by hand with a wrench it should be ok.

Do you have a nice bright clean rust free contact of the starter to the block?

I rebuilt an 8n last winter, new sleeves, pistons bearing, the works. Did not have to pull start and it is still 6 volts.

 

[terry/mich]

i had the same problem when i did my overhaul. the motor was super tight. the new rope seal are a bugger. after a hour of trying to start, not even any firing what so ever. i ended up squirting gas down the sparky hole. she fired right up.

 

[Rozie]

I burned up my starter trying to get'r going so I guess I'm going backwards. I wasn't running it long either. I'm lucky if it turned the flywheel 5 or 6 times.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 12:08:04 08/06/11) I burned up my starter trying to get'r going so I guess I'm going backwards. I wasn't running it long either. I'm lucky if it turned the flywheel 5 or 6 times.

I step ever so very slightly out on a limb here, but I believe you have something wrong in assembly (clearances or ?), as I have rebuilt many engines & when things are right, they just are just not that tight.

 

[daz]

Listen to Teddy. Pull it but before you turn on the ignition make sure it"s pumping oil. Go through several heat cycles. Let it run a bit then cool down. Run and cool, etc.

 

[Ultradog MN]

Someone here needs to get a torque setting to turn over a properly assembled N engine. Would be easy to do - just put the torque wrench onto the big nut on the front pully. That way we could give an approximate number to others who wonder if their engines are too tight.
I say you shouldn't have to pull an engine to start it the first time. It should start on the starter.

 

[Rozie]

$190 at Tractor supply company for a new starter!! Guess I will get this one rebuilt and hopefully save a couple of bucks.

I did not check the crank with plastigauge after it was turned and I ordered new bearings. I was able to turn it by hand prior to placing the oil pan back on. I'm hoping my starter was just a little weak before it finally fried. I'll keep you guys posted.

I tried taking the plugs out to lower the compression. No luck. I still haven't tried pulling it yet. I don't have another guy handy at the moment. Hopefully soon though. Thanks

 

[ZANE]

Pull it!
Zane

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 15:02:44 08/06/11) Pull it!
Zane

second that...make it run or break it real good so it can be fixed or sold by the pound! 14 posts. You can't talk the problem away.

 

[R Geiger]

How much of the rope seals did you leave sticking out?

 

[Charles H.]

(quoted from post at 22:08:30 08/06/11)

(quoted from post at 15:02:44 08/06/11) Pull it!
Zane

second that...make it run or break it real good so it can be fixed or sold by the pound! 14 posts. You can't talk the problem away.

I also say pull it but in 4th till it fires good but if you can just use another tractor and a belt with the plugs out and break it in that way as seen here below. http://vintagetractors.com/Oliver60Ind.html

 

[Charles H.]

Used 4th then

 

[Charles H.]

(quoted from post at 04:29:33 08/07/11)

(quoted from post at 22:08:30 08/06/11)

(quoted from post at 15:02:44 08/06/11) Pull it!
Zane

second that...make it run or break it real good so it can be fixed or sold by the pound! 14 posts. You can't talk the problem away.

I also say pull it but in 4th till it fires good but if you can just use another tractor and a belt with the plugs out and break it in that way as seen here below. http://vintagetractors.com/Oliver60Ind.html

 

[Charles H.]

(quoted from post at 22:08:30 08/06/11)

(quoted from post at 15:02:44 08/06/11) Pull it!
Zane

second that...make it run or break it real good so it can be fixed or sold by the pound! 14 posts. You can't talk the problem away.

I also say pull it but in 4th till it fires good but if you can just use another tractor and a belt with the plugs out and break it in that way as seen here below. http://vintagetractors.com/Oliver60Ind.html

 

[NOXJohn]

I would never try to start a new rebuild without first getting some oil pressure. If it fires up and you don't have oil pressure you will burn up the engine in a very short period of time. I always pull the plugs, push in the clutch and jump the starter with a 12 volt battery until I am getting some oil pressure. Even a few pounds is enough. Then you can pull start it.

 

[rnorum]

I think J-mor lightly touched on the problem.

What goes wrong with assembly is rod and main caps on backwards, folding over a ring rail putting pistons in and nicking the rod journals when installing rod and piston in the motor. the seals do not drag that much, should easily be able to turn over engine with a 1/2 drive ratchet and socket on the front pulley

 

[trucker 40]

On a rebuilt engine,if it turns real hard,something is wrong.You might have a rod cap on backwards.Maybe a main cap on backwards.Maybe something else.You should always check any reground crank with plastiguage.You have to find out what it is before it gets worse.You wouldnt want to run it with a cap on backwards.While it will be tighter because of the new stuff,you should still be able to turn it fairly easy.In fact the way you put a crank in is like this.You first check the clearance with plastiguage,then you clean all the palstiguage off and install the bearings and torque them down.Then you grab the front of the crank with your hand and spin it.If it doesnt spin a cap is probably on backwards,maybe in the wrong place.The last time I had a problem like that I had swapped the number 2 cap on the number 5 rod in a 302 Ford v8.You cant do that!The numbers were stamped real light and I had to start taking it all back apart when I found it.Also the bearing tangs have to be on the same side.So if you have a tang on each side it wont work and is on backwards.Also by doing that,usually the cap will not have very much clearance on that journal,so a way to find it might be to check your sod side clearance and whichever one doesnt have much is probably the one.There could be other things too,broken rings,wrong torque,not enough clearance on something.

 

[Charles H.]

Was wondering, She stated; I greased everything with assembly lube also. Things just seem to be tight. I was able to turn it with a wrench while adjusting the tappets etc."
Wouldn't you think if you can turn it with a wrench to adjust the tappets it would be alright to at least pull start it, or use a belt to work it in as in the link showing the Coop. She has later stated the starter stopped working. Could mean a bad starter right off the bat. I've rebuilt a few car and truck engines and either just pull started then or used 24 volts to start them.

 

[trucker 40]

Well there is turning it over with a wrench and its tight,but alright,and then there is turning it barely with a wrench and it is way too tight.Not being there,and not knowing what all is involved,I believe I would pull the pan and check all of the rod and main caps.Thats just me,it might not be necessary,and just a little tight or something,but Ive built a lot of diesel engines and some gas engines and every time I had something real tight,it was a cap on backwards or something.But also I think if it will turn just a little tight with a wrench maybe you could pull it.Id sure be ready to shut it off.I sure wouldnt want to mess up that reground crank or a set of bearings or worse when all I would have had to do was pull the pan and check it out.It sounds like its too tight if it burned up the starter,but maybe it was weak?Ive rebuilt engines and had to replace the starter before,but they always turned the engine over good it seems like.All that new stuff would definitely be harder to turn for the starter if it was weak.

 

[Britcheflee]

I know a tiny fraction of what you guys do but something to me seems wrong here...I replaced sleeves, pistons, rings and bearings (although I admit I put in same size bearings as were in there before) it turned over without any problems and fired right up....are you telling me they had to pull each tractor that came off the assembly line to get it to start? I just have this gut feeling something is binding up in there?



Lee

 

[Charles H.]

There may be something wrong with that motor, I use to help a friend on the weekends when I had the time with his race cars and it was nothing to change out three motors in one day because of bad oil pumps. But before starters I would think the factories used a power unit or pony motor to start the tractors, or had then off the floor and turned the rear wheels, however a lot of people did this;

 

[showcrop]

As others have said those rope seals put a major drag on before they wear in a little. When I rebuilt a continental 2 years ago. I checked for drag be fore putting rear seal in. virtually none. Checked after seal but before rods, a whole lot! So I finished assembly, and on a friends advice turned it over by wrench for 45 mins. Then it was turning easily enough for the starter to crank it.

 

[trucker 40]

Well its hard to tell from what somebody writes is what tight is.Maybe if they put a torque wrench on it and told what it was reading before it turned would help get a better diagnosis.I dont actually know what a good torque reading would be for a new,tight engine.Maybe 70 pounds.If it takes a lot more than 70 pounds like say 120 pounds,Im thinking there would be a problem.Say it called for 70 pounds but it takes 90 pounds,well it might be alright then too.I would think if it was over 90 pounds then it ought to be torn back down and look at the rod and main caps.All guess of course.
I really dont know how they did it on the assembly line,but I bet they had something like a torque wrench,and if it was too tight they sent it back to be torn down before they ever even bolted it in a tractor.I dont buy the rope seals making it too tight to turn over.Ive built engines that used rope seals and never had that trouble.Maybe if the seals were put in wrong it could get tight,but I doubt it would ever be too tight to turn over with a starter.There are lots of things it could be that are wrong that would cause it though and quite a few are mentioned here.I hope they tell us what they do and if it fixes it or not.