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Working D Hydraulics!

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J

Joel Sanderson

Member
I finally finished it yesterday! My D's hydraulic system works! I sincerely appreciate everyone here who gave me advice and helped me get this working. Thank you all.

Here are some pictures. I put the lever to the left of the PTO with the link going forward to the control valve which is under the left platform. There was already a hole cut in the sheet metal. ( I intend to move the battery box there, so the hole will be covered.) The outlets are under the tail light. I mounted the tail light farther back so that the outlets would be behind the platform to any drips fall off, not on it. The reservoir is under the right platform, ahead of the axil, and the fill cap sticks up through. I made a plate to reinforce the sheet metal. Everything is connected under the platform with hoses.



Joel


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Thanks, folks! This was fun.

Here are some more pictures. One is the tank before it was installed. It has two pipe fittings opposite each other. Two are the pressure side from the pump, and that's just a pipe passing through the tank and is connected to pump on one side and the control valve on the other. The other two are the suction and return. The outlets are positioned to pass the hoses through the fender bracket. You can't see the overflow, but it's an 1/8" pipe that goes in the bottom to just inside the top of the tank, with a notch cut in its end inside. This let me pressurize the system to prime the pump, and it will burp out the bottom if I overfill it. The system holds 2 gallons with a half-gallon air space. I have a John Deere hydraulic cap and dipstick which I intend to modify to fit this. Then it won't look like a pipe cap anymore.





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A clean looking installation. So the controls are down in there between the flywheel and rear axle? The operation lever appears factory installed.
Usually the SCV control and reservoir that is also used on an AR or low seat 60 is bolted down under the D's seat ? I was wondering for a minute how this was being done.
 
Thank you.

Yes, the control valve is ahead of the axil, behind the flywheel. It's a Char-lynn 1000 psi valve. The reservoir is on the opposite side, same position. I tried to put the
tank under the platform below the seat, but there just was not enough room there for a two-gallon tank. I thought it might cool better there, but if it overheats, I can
always add a cooling system--either a tiny radiator (which I have) or a copper line with fins. I don't think it'll be a problem though just running a cylinder. I don't plan to
run a motor with it.

Those batteries are really bugging me. I don't know why Deere put them there on top, ahead of the dash. The older position, to the left, was so much neater. That's
where mine'll be, whether it's proper or not.
 
For those of you who might care, this is how I got the air out of the system. I took a short piece of hose and connected the outlets so it could circulate all around without stopping. I'm sure lots of folks have done this (or have a better way) but I thought I'd share this anyway.

On another subject: Did Deere make anything to attach to the angle iron along the back of the tractor? It looks like it could have had a platform extension, but I've never seen one. Since there are enough D's to go around and it's not a sin to alter this one, I think I might add something there so my bottom's not dangling over space as I putt-putt along at high speed. (!) I could put a tool box there too. The original one was rusted out, and I put my hydraulic tank there besides. Anyway, just wondered if there was something that went there.


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I'm still searching for a plow. Gonna have to get by with my 2-16 Oliver at the moment. Ugh. I don't have much ground to plow right away though.

Have you pulled 4-14's with a D? I think I'd be fine with that size in our area's loam (southern Michigan) but I've heard other folks in other places say a 3-14 would be better. My tires are in good shape, they're loaded, and I have a set of wheel weights on it--so that should help.
 
My areaf west central Ohio you would not be pulling a 4 bottom with it. Perhaps 1st gear, perhaps only out of ground.
 
I believe it! I used to work in Archbold, and the wet clay in that swampland took a lot to pull a plow. If you're anything like that, I'm sure a D wouldn't pull four bottoms.
 

I agree , a factory stock D is a 2 or 3 bottom plough.
Why lug the guts out of the old girl .
That said , a D with the dual stack cold gasoline manifold and a set of gasoline pistons . They make a surprising amount of snort .
 
I agree with B&D. A 3x14 would be a good match, but depending on what you figure on plowing, 14" will plug easier than a 16". We pulled a 3x16" in black gumbo for years with an unstlyed D. I would think it would handle 3x16's, but keep in mind the radiator will probably be calciumed up and dirty from years of work, so on a hot day it might be better to have a 2x16" If plugging will not be an issue, I would go with a 3x14".

I have hosted many plow days over several years time. People seem to want to bring the largest plow their tractor had ever thought about pulling. They usually end up not having fun as they don't have traction, or tractor overheats (most usually) or a myriad of other issues. Nothing worse that having some guy come along just scratching the ground because he can't pull the monster plow in the ground. I always tell people to bring one bottom less than the tractor was rated for and they will have a lot more fun.

Good luck with the ole D. They are one of my favorite tractors. Here is one I restored a few years ago. Bob
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Oh, that's pretty! Very nice!

I replaced the radiator core in January, so it should cool okay. Of course, there's probably some scale in the block.

My 1944 A's manual says the A's capacity is "2-16" plow bottoms under normal conditions or 3-14" plow bottoms under favorable conditions." My thinking is that if that weenie A can pull 3-14" bottoms, the D should be able to pull one more. I even pulled a 3-16" with it for one season until I found it couldn't do it. (I bought the plow from a fellow in our area who used to pull it with an A, but he had a later model with more power.) I'm sure you're right that it'd lug it more and work it like crazy in all but the best conditions.

If it's relevant, my dad pulls 5-16's with his 80 that's rated for 4-16's. I think our soil is a lot lighter than most places'.
 
Ten years ago I pulled 3-16s with ease here in western Maryland. I cant remember what gear I used, I think 2nd. No fluid but 2 sets of wheel weights. The front was light though when I would hit a clay spot. I could have done that all day, miss that set up. It might pull 4 but if it was me, I'd stick with 3 and know I could go with ease.

Nice job on the hydraulics. I wished mine had that.
 
Very neat job, of course I wouldn't expect anything else from the best blacksmith/ironworker in Michigan. Glad I could help with the timing issue. I pull 3-16 with mine easily, no liquid in tires or weights.
 
Thank you for the compliment. Thank you for the account of what yours pulled too. Three bottoms makes sense. I'll see what I find. I can alway sell whatever I get if I don't like it.
 
The 80 was rated a 5 plow tractor so its doing what it should. Despite what JD claimed pulling 3 bottoms, I always thought the pre 1947 A as a heavy duty 2 plow tractor and the B as a light duty 2 plow tractor. A styled D likes yours should be more then capable of pulling a 3 bottom plow 14" or 16". They had 38 drawbar horsepower which was only 5 less then the R. The unstyled Ds made from 31' to 39's had only 30 hp and plenty of those pulled 3 bottoms too.
 
That would be nice except for the seat. I prefer spring pan seats to boxes with cushions. Gives a lot more when you hit a bump. I've always wondered why the later Letters and early Numbers had no spring to them. Who thought of that? Then they came out with that awful seat on the 3010, 4010 etc that in half an hour I need to see a chiropractor. Some woman back surgeon developed it if I recall. (No sexism implied.) Plus, they're not made to stand up and drive, which rests the back. My wife and I both do better with the pan seat A than the 3010.

Thanks for the picture.
 
Now you've destroyed your credibility by making false statements. :) I've never met a "best" at anything; there's always someone who knows more. But thank you, Paul.

When I bought my A in 2009 it was timed backwards. I should have known you then, because I flipped the magneto around instead of just flipping the spark plug wires! Whoops. Thanks for all your advice. I hope my phone calls aren't a nuisance.

joel
 
I'll have to look in the manual again. I was sure it said 4-16's for the 80. Could be wrong, of course. "Wrong" seems to happen with me more than I like.

I don't know what horse power my D is making. I got it only a year ago and haven't done more with it than run the generator and cut wood. At some point I want to give it high compression and get it up to the mid 50s for power, but that won't be this year. Maybe I should wait until I do to pull 4 bottoms.
 
You need to be a Farmall/IH guy then because they stuck with the pan seat long after JD did. I?ll take a padded seat with a back rest any day over sitting on a spring board. The thing I really hate about the pan seat is the seat support is in your way all the time between your legs restricting your movement. And on the NG tractors I?m pretty sure the seat slides back out of the way so you can stand. I know both our 5010 and 5020 do.
 
"My 1944 A's manual. . ."

That reminds me - we have a 630, and my father-in-law read that they were rated as a four plow tractor. He found a four bottom International plow and brought it home. When I dropped it into the ground, I nearly busted my lip on the steering wheel. I think the manuals were a little optimistic, at least with the soil in my neighborhood.
 
You beat me to it! I just went and got the manual! It's rated to pull 5-14's, and my dad's pulling 5-16's with his. I knew there was something about it he was pulling over the recommendation. So if the R is rated at five bottoms under favorable conditions, seems to me the D could do one less, since it's only a few HP less and has more torque. We can theorize all day though and get nowhere until I put a plow in our ground and see for myself.

Thanks for the scan. Now I don't have to. ;)
 
(quoted from post at 14:04:48 04/08/20) You beat me to it! I just went and got the manual! It's rated to pull 5-14's, and my dad's pulling 5-16's with his. I knew there was something about it he was pulling over the recommendation. So if the R is rated at five bottoms under favorable conditions, seems to me the D could do one less, since it's only a few HP less and has more torque. We can theorize all day though and get nowhere until I put a plow in our ground and see for myself.

Thanks for the scan. Now I don't have to. ;)
Click to expand...

This rating obviously occurred in sandy soil and not in Blue clay.
 
Yeah. Agreed.

I've also noticed that you fellers south of the glacier don't have stones and pull your plows faster than we do up here in rock central. Slower means we can pull another
bottom. When my grandpa was a boy he went to the country school which boarders the farm. There is a field he used to walk through to get there, and it was a game of
his to cross it without touching dirt--hopping from rock to rock! No fast plows allowed here.
 
Joel,

Your hydraulics setup is the cleanest I've ever seen on a D! I love it, amazing planning and engineering to make it look and work good!

Brandon
 
Ooooo, yeah! I've been casually looking for a seat like that. That's the industrial seat, right? I've thought about making a seat like that, but that stamped back panel would be tough to duplicate with my sized machinery. Is that your weird Deere, Brandon?
 
There were many brands that used a similar seat. I found this one at an auction, maybe off an Oliver. I only used the seat base and fabricated everything above to match pictures and measurements. The back panel wasn't too hard to make but honestly I went way too thin on the gauge of sheetmetal. Marked it, clamped it in a vice and smacked it to shape with a hammer. The "reinforcment" ribs aren't the best, just sorta beat in there.

Yes it's my Weird Deere, my DI
 
Thanks, David. Just having a D has been a dream of mine since I was a kid too. I had a toy one I used to "putt-putt" around the rug with pulling toy combines and things. My dad gave me a tape recording when I was little called "The Sounds of Yesteryear," and it started out with a guy hand starting a D. I just loved it--that and the steam train. I listened to that tape over and over and drove my sister crazy. Now I have my own old sounds. Funny what influences us.
 
The back plate is 18 inches high, this was my blueprint

The dimensions of the bottom are the inside of it, I measured to have a cushion made

The gauge of steel, I can't remember, I just got it from the hardware store, pretty thin

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Brandon
 
Thank you, Brandon! I saved your pictures in my D file. I hope to make one like that before I spend a lot of hours on this girl. I should have more ground next year. (I think I have another field lined up anyway.) I'll be sure to show you what I come up with. Now that my hydraulic system's done, I'm working on the electrical system, starting with a new battery box so that snow and rain doesn't drain the batteries like I had happen last winter. I'll be sure to show pictures when I'm done. Should be today. I can't have this tractor plugging up my shop any longer!

The parts manual shows the cushioned seat having four slotted holes in the back, which I interpret to be for a cushion, yet there's only one cushion shown, which is for the seat, not the back. Hmmm. I bet we could start a thread on this and get some informative responses.

Here's a picture of a D I saw for sale one time and saved the picture because of the seat. It doesn't look like the industrial seat in the parts manual. I wonder if this was a farm version or if it wasn't original to a D. Looks nice, whatever it is. I think I'd prefer your higher back though.






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Whoever was illustrating that industrial seat must have been drunk
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I've never seen holes in the seat like you mentioned. I never even noticed in the illustration til you mentioned haha!

They also messed up the industrial seat spring. It's drawn upside down! Note the three close holes....they are to adjust the height where it bolts onto the transmission, not for the seat!!!

Since you want comfort, and you have a working tractor, not a factory original showpiece, I would think about taking a standard Deere cushioned seat and modifying it to fit on your seat support with a better height with a back cushion. It'd be easy to get cushions for. I had to get mine custom made and I don't think he's in business anymore either. If you REALLY want comfort, look for the more expensive cushions that have springs inside. The cheap ones are just foam and have no support, you sink to the bottom pretty quick

Brandon
 
(quoted from post at 07:12:10 04/13/20) Since you want comfort, and you have a working tractor, not a factory original showpiece, I would think about taking a standard Deere cushioned seat and modifying it to fit on your seat support with a better height with a back cushion. It'd be easy to get cushions for. I had to get mine custom made and I don't think he's in business anymore either. If you REALLY want comfort, look for the more expensive cushions that have springs inside. The cheap ones are just foam and have no support, you sink to the bottom pretty quick

Brandon
Click to expand...

For comfort, I would jump to the new generation (4010) seat. The combo of seat + cushions brackets is at about $150 online, and the fabrication involved is down to a minimum.
 
Oh my gosh! It is drawn upside down! Ha ha! I never caught that. How absolutely funny! Drunk is right! I wonder what else is drawn wrong or backwards. Ha!

I have a thing about something needing to look appropriate, even if it's not period-correct, historically accurate, bla bla bla. I dunno, maybe it's silly, but it has to look right for me to like something, even if its looks are based on general appearance and not accuracy. You know--look right, like your seat. Does that make sense? I wouldn't feel right about taking a modern seat and plopping it down on an old tractor. Plus, my dad has a 3010 and a 4020, and those seats are the biggest back killers on his farm. Neither my wife nor I can drive either tractor without serious back issues for days afterwords. And, those tractors are hideously ugly from the top down--including the seats. I can't stand those models. It's as though design reached a pinnacle and fell downhill ever since--the farther the Deere committee diverged from the design created by the artist they hired (Dreyfuss) the more their design degenerated. I could say that about most design that crashed with WWII and its aftermath of streamlined, functional, industry-worship, but that would be an art discussion. ;) I could go on about those awful modern tractors all day, from their pathetic economy, acrid exhaust, awkward controls, bouncing clutches, bad seats, ugliness and cost, but I won't. (Have you ever noticed the recent Deere tractors look like high-top tennis shoes?) Nope. Not gonna do that. I'll stay positive and think about my D and keep it pretty. I'd rather spend the time making a seat that looks right, like yours, even if it's not factory original.

Wow. That became a rant. Ha ha! Oops. :)
 
I was thinking like a model A or B seat onto your seat spring. I don't think it'd look out of place. But everybody knows what they like and you definitely know how to do it

If you want to be horrified, look up the Chip Foose modified 4020

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Brandon
 
The new styling is bad but nothing looks good now

The Foose 4020 is taking something good and.....ugh

But I do admit I'm more of an open radiator unstyled guy!

Brandon
 
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