Worst Case Tractor Ever

[Straw Boss]

Something I've wondered about from time to time so thought it might make a good Sunday discussion topic.
Did Case ever make a bad farm tractor? Maybe a few weren't the best in the world but was there ever one with a bad reputation?
Not talking about the occasional lemon or abused tractor here but a poorly designed and produced model? I can't think of one.

Since the first Case steam engine, Case tractors have been a class act.
The 30-60, 20-40 and 10-20 were award winners in the US and internationally.
The cross-motor era tractors were very dependable.
The grey era were bullet proof.
Flambeau tractors are still working on many farms.
100/30 and 70 series were used and abused for years as farmers in those eras were trying to farm more acres and pulling
equipment to wide and too deep for the horsepower they had at the time yet those tractors seldom self-destruct.
90/94 tractors were as solid as they come. There were a few updates on them here and there but that hardly makes them a
bad tractor overall.

I've heard there may be a David Brown model that wasn't too good. The 1690 I think it was but not sure.
And even so, it wasn't a true Case design in the first place as it was the red-headed step child from England with no Case
engineering in it's DNA.

I know there's an Fiat designed Oliver that gets shunned and a John Deere model that even green underwear guys won't bring home.
I'm sure there's others in the other brands and I don't want to make this about bashing other tractors or even bash our Case tractors. But I'm truly curious if its possible to come to a consensus on if Case ever made a truly bad USA designed and produced tractor?
For the life of me I can't think of one at the moment. What say you?

 

[jon f mn]

I've also heard the 1690 was one to stay away from, engine issues I believe. I wonder if any other engine would bolt in and make it a good tractor? But I've had no experience with them. Can't think of any other that were bad.

 

[kenbob]

I probably should be the last to post,as I bought my first Case 2 years ago. I do like lively discussions, especially when the weather is to crappy to do anything else. My cousin had one of the first 600 series with case-o-matic. That tractor had a bad reputation. It might have been more a lack of operator training on the COM. I was only a teen then and got to drive it on the baler. There may have been engine issues too. I hope not, as I have a 351 which has the same dry sleeve engine. THere are some life-long Case guys in the tractor club I ride with and they have lots of 30 series tractors but said they won't own a COM.

If you want to broaden the discussion, a neighbor had a Case baler in the 60's that could not seem to tie 10 bales in a row, even though the Case dealer spent several hours working on it every year. Don't know the model number, but it was pto driven, string tie and the strings tied on the side instead of the top.

 

[Case Nutty 1660]

we sold com two to one, I have lots of them here including two 600B's all work great, like you said 99% of complaints on the com was due to operator error, as for Case balers, that was the dealers fault as he knew little about setting one, for us if they missed two to three in a thousand bales that was normal, just like the NH balers we later sold but again we knew how to adjust them I have never seen a baler from the factory ever set 100% correct
cnt

 

[rfdmn]

We had a 600 when I was about 10 or 12 years old.I seem to remember an issue with the valves that was corrected by case issuing a new head. It also seems only one person could drive the case-o-matic properly. Had several since then they work great, I'll probably be using one in an 830 today to blow snow.

 

[Adirondack case guy]

When the 630's came out we had cooling and head gasket problems with the 188 diesels.Those problems were later addressed with different thickness fire rings for the head gasket, and a simple change that kept the water pump from cavitating. There is a 7/16" cap screw behind the water pump which secures the timing cover/pump housing to the front of the head. They decided to drill a 7/32" hole in the center of that cap screw to allow coolant to flow from inside the head to the back of the water pump.
Problems solved.
As far as COM problems, most were due to thick sculled operators who could not change their ways.
Loren

 

[Bret4207]

Anyone that can't figure a COM tractor out is too dumb to drive any tractor. All it is is a locking torque converter. You drive it like an auto transmission and pull the locking lever when you get going. When the going gets tough, rather than downshift, you unlock the converter and gain torque. Simple. They are just about bullet proof until a fool tries to burn rubber with one.

 

[GreenEnvy]

I agree that Case never really made a horrible tractor. The only slight blemish on their record far as my area is concerned is their 4x4 crabsteers specifically their 70 series and on up. They just weren't as reliable or rugged as the Versatiles and Steigers of the day. They had a reputation similar to the JD 30-40 series of the day.

 

[VAC400]

We had a 600B on the farm, dad bought it used so we did not know the history of the tractor. It had a brazed head and burnt a lot of valves, but we got that fixed. Broke a rear axle, and the cam was bad. I liked the 600 for it had a road gear and the case-o-matic worked great. The only thing was the transmission got hot at your legs, never got that one solved. Jerry from Ohio

 

[JOCCO]

Well sir here is my take (I can almost see war starting) Case balers were not to popular or revered in my area. Case log skidders were a disaster The old saying they spent more time on there top than there wheels (rolled over) They were heavy and awkward. (except the early 300) The David Brown stuff was nothing extra They went through like a flash in pan. Now for tractors most were pretty good I personally don't like the v series, never did. And last those Case Ingersoll lawn tractors? I just don't get it, they never did much for me The ones I see were crued.

 

[GreenEnvy]

If we are going to talk things other then tractors, their self propelled combines with the right side ops platform were not that great especially the first ones.

 

[Adirondack case guy]

Well, any brand of baler is no better than the dealer servicing them. I have a wall covered with plaques that my dad got from Case Co. for sales and service of balers. He even made some improvements that were later put into production.
As far as skidders, They were just re-badged and re-powered Beloit skidders.
Loren

 

[kevinthefixer]

I have a 611B, and I've had a few problems with it. But first, of course it's 60 years old, things are going to go wrong with it. Design life on a tractor back then maybe 25 years? Second, it has had very poor maintenance. Main mixture screw installed cockeyed so it missed the jet enirely, and the idle mixture screwed all the way in, it was so rich it barely ran at all. Ignition coil installed so that you couldn't read the words "use with external resistor" printed on it. Standard hydraulic oil in it. Air cleaner mounted so low you couldn't remove the oil cup. So much grease built up on it the throttle wouldn't return to idle. Many more, but none of this can be blamed on Case; no piece of equipment will hold up for long without proper maintenance.

 

[JOCCO]

For what its worth there were a few other skidders that were flatland machines too!!!! We did not have big case presence in the early days. I would dare say MM outsold them. With case construction stuff it picked up and the later tractors 430, 530, 730 etc. sold better due to dealers. Far as balers there were some other ones that did not due to well either.

 

[JOCCO]

The balers seemed to be 100 and 200 series something like 130/140 I may not have the numbers right. Not sure about later case one. The real late ones were international based after the merger.

 

[JOCCO]

What about the Case rc, It had that 10-12 hp motor in it? I think it went down about like the Allis rc

 

[Eagle Doc]

Bingo. You hit the nail on the head.

 

[GreenEnvy]

So you had to lock/unlock the torque converter manually?

 

[D Case Guy]

I'd agree, it was fit for the tractor. The earlier engines had an issue that allowed too much dirt intake, possibly at the breather. I think the low power output was a result of Clausens resistance to a new model, and penny pinching. The Case designed part of the tractor was fine, and succeeded as the SC for years to come.

 

[chcase]

In my area was never alot of case tractors.The com got a really bad rap as the few dealers never explained the tranny.If new the farmer was given a owners manual and said your good to go. And used ones no one really explained them.The balers were never dealer prepared and never sold well.The rest of the tractors were bullet proof.

 

[kevinthefixer]

@greenenvy, yes, you'd normally leave the convertor unlocked then when you hit the road and got rolling there's a lever right of the steering wheel that locks it. You can unlock it with the lever or if you step on the clutch it moves the lever for you. You need the clutch to shift gears, it's just a manual non-synchro-mesh trans behind the torque convertor and clutch.

 

[kenbob]

I believe you might be refering to the 2010 John Deere. At least that is the one I always hear was a lemon. But what in particular was wrong with that tractor that wasn't wrong with the 3010,4010?

 

[GreenEnvy]

To answer your question almost everything. The 2010 shared nothing in common with the bigger two tractors. The worst thing about them was the engines mainly the diesels with the deck sleeve plate. Also the 2010 is probably the worst supported tractor JD ever built.

 

[Ande]

I couldn't agree more on COM, Dad said the customers that wouldn't shift into direct, would always be the ones that tore the COM up I would love to have a "800B" with COM

 

[kenbob]

So that begs the question. What about the 1010? Were they a different cat from the 2010?

 

[GreenEnvy]

The engines between the two were part of the same family but everything else on the 1010 was different from the 2010. The 1010 was basically an updated version of the 2 cylinder 430 with a 4 cylinder engine. It had some of the same issues of the 2010 mainly in the engine area but is suppose to be more reliable then the 2010. The reason why the 2010 had issues from the get go is because it was kind of the orphan of the New Generation tractors. Most of the engineering money and time went towards the 3010/4010/5010. There was inter factory squabbling on who had to design and built the 2010 and as a result it was a shoe horned together project with a blending of technology from both the bigger tractors and the 1010.

 

[oleclint]

My idea of the poorest Case was the "DC" and the "CC" models hand clutch models. The "C " series was next because of the way the clutch handle worked, backwards from the "DC". More important . it was on the right side while the "D" series were on the left side.
The "CC" was pulled back to engage. The "DC" clutch handle was pushed forward to engage.
The "SC" was another screw up of its own, being on the right while the "D" was on the left side.
Dad had a "CC" and two "DC s at the same time for a few years. Thankfully no one got hurt with those hand clutch s, as messed up as the were.
Also, we bought a new, early model30 baler with the two cyl. engine. We took delivery in Dec, a few
months latter a company service man showed up with a bunch of new parts to put on it. Believe it or not , he came back for the second time with more parts to put on it!
When it came time to bale hay , we took it to the field and the dealers 'top' baler man was there to start it.The first time the needlwent inthey both came out busted.! That baler was not made like the old DC s as they were bullit proof.

 

[GreenEnvy]

To bad they didn't or couldn't make it an automatic lock up like the Allison in our Steiger.

 

[JOCCO]

The 1010 didn't do much for me. Than there was the 510.

 

[kevinthefixer]

Well, after all it was the 1950s. Fluid drives and auto transmissions were brand-new.

 

[kenbob]

Thanks for the info. I wondered what the story was. I don't have any green, but our library has the Green power mag, and I like to read it. I saw passing references to the 2010 a couple of times.

 

[GreenEnvy]

Maybe so but big industrial equipment like 300 hp scrapers and dump trucks were using Allison autos in the 50s. I was just thinking taking the lock/unlock out of farmers hands maybe the COM would have worked better.

 

[Bret4207]

I own an 811B COM and a Deere 1010 crawler/loader/backhoe. I can say with certainty there is nothing wrong with the COM or the 1010. Yes, both are "different" than what folks were used to, but I lay 80% the fault for the COM poor rep being caused by operator error and the 1010s for the other 20% of the COM rep- bar stool experts that never owned or used one telling all their drunk buddies how bad they were! Add in that the COM gets confused with the Ford Selcto-Speed (another one that has a bad rep due to a lot of operator error and the same drunks "fixing" them)and there you have the making of some of the favorite rural legends!

That being said, yes, you can get a bad COM or a bad 1010/2010 or a bad Ford Selecto-Speed. You can also get a good one and actually read the op manuals and do the required upkeep with the proper lubes and fluids and they all work surprisingly well. But that stuff doesn't make for a good story down at the roadhouse, does it?

 

[GreenEnvy]

Its a documented fact, not bar room talk, that the 2010 and the Ford SOS was flawed from the beginning. Did the JD and Ford improve them so that they were actually somewhat reliable as time went on. Of course they did. I had a neighbor with an industrial 2010 with a backhoe that he bought new and used it up till about 10 years ago. Had over 8,000 hrs and ran like a sewing machine. Doesn't take away from the fact 2010s initially had reliability problems. There is a reason JD initiated the "clean sheet" design program for the 1020/2020. It wasn't because the 1010/20 were sooo reliable and great. And google up Harold Brock and the SOS transmission.

 

[kevinthefixer]

In my experience, automatic lock-up torque convertors were a nightmare well into the 80s, until they went to full computer control. Had an S10 Blazer, I think it was, couldn't keep a brake light fuse in it. Of course I couldn't get it to blow while in the shop. Finally sent a helper to the library for a wiring diagram, guess what was on the same circuit? Someone had serviced the tranny and pinched the output wire from the high-gear sensor so that fuse didn't blow until it got into high gear and tried to activate the lockup solenoid. Yeah, I'm a fan of manual control.

 

[Bret4207]

I dind't say they were "so great", I said their poor reputation has been exaggerated by idiots sitting on a bar stool, and that my friend is how most bad reputation get spread around! Doesn't matter if it's a tractor released before all the bugs were worked out (SOS), those with an unusual engine design (1010/2010), how the Chevy Corvair was a death trap, that every Ford Pinto ever made would burst into flame at the slightest bump or your sisters romantic entanglements, everything gets blown out of proportion and exaggerated by barstool experts. That's all I'm saying.