WW2 question

[Fritz Maurer]

If the Panzers froze stiff in the winter cold, how did the Russians get their T34 started?

 

[GChief]

They had an high pressure air start. Kind of like I install on Gas Turbine Generators

 

[jhwis]

Google says:
T-34 tanks were designed to start in cold weather using a special system of two compressed air canisters to force fuel into the system and turn the engine over when the diesel fuel began to freeze.

 

[scootergmc]

Chief is the almighty google.

 

[Mule Meat]

Electric was primary, air secondary.

When dug in or parked for a period of time. The Russians had a small wood stove that could be set in a trench under the tank with the stove pipe exiting out past the road wheels. The stove not only kept the engine warm but also heated the crew compartment some.

 

[Not db4600]

Electric was primary, air secondary.

When dug in or parked for a period of time. The Russians had a small wood stove that could be set in a trench under the tank with the stove pipe exiting out past the road wheels. The stove not only kept the engine warm but also heated the crew compartment some.

Similar to a Fordson.

 

[MarkB_MI]

I don't care how cold it is; if your life depends on getting a motor started you're going to figure out a way to get it going.

The Germans had two big problems with their tanks: They weren't reliable enough or easy enough to repair for their crews to be able to keep them running. And they never had enough of them.

 

[caterpillar guy]

They would blow the turret off from those cheap poor built Sherman's we had at that time. Sherman was a salmon can compared to the panzer and tigers. In fact if you pay attention to Carl Malden In Patton he tells the operators that managed to live long enough to tell it said that to him the Sherman when hit by a German tank the rivets just bounced around in there a bit like shrapnel.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

I don't care how cold it is; if your life depends on getting a motor started you're going to figure out a way to get it going.

The Germans had two big problems with their tanks: They weren't reliable enough or easy enough to repair for their crews to be able to keep them running. And they never had enough of them.

Well, that is the point exactly. Many of them DID die. With no effort from the Russian army. They may have left them running all night in some cases but the supply line got stretched too far for that to be an option.

 

[Gambles]

The Germans had two big problems with their tanks: They weren't reliable enough or easy enough to repair for their crews to be able to keep them running. And they never had enough of them.

My FIL enlisted in the army right after WWII. (He would have enlisted sooner, but wasn’t old enough) Since he was fluent in German, he did his time in Germany and Austria to help the rebuilding effort and was in charge of dome ex-German soldiers. They told him that Germany lost the war because if a tank needed major repair, the German tank crew had to do the repairs themself. If an American tank needed major repair, the Americans just got themselves a brand new tank.
And they were probably right.

 

[moresmoke]

Electric was primary, air secondary.

When dug in or parked for a period of time. The Russians had a small wood stove that could be set in a trench under the tank with the stove pipe exiting out past the road wheels. The stove not only kept the engine warm but also heated the crew compartment some.

The old time loggers would do that, minus the stove. Build a fire under the belly pan and let er warm up a bit.

 

[Russ from MN]

The old time loggers would do that, minus the stove. Build a fire under the belly pan and let er warm up a bit.

My father used a propane torch in a stovepipe to warm the JD350 crawler, but he caught it on fire one winter.

 

[Mule Meat]

Well, that is the point exactly. Many of them DID die. With no effort from the Russian army. They may have left them running all night in some cases but the supply line got stretched too far for that to be an option.

A lot of German tank crews died of carbon monoxide from using Esbit stoves and bunker heaters inside of their tanks trying to stay warm.
-----------
An old German WW2 soldier that was with Army group center told me about his experience. He told about how they thought they would have Russia in four to five months. But they were not prepared for what happened. When the Russian lines fell back the Germans thought that they were weak and giving up. As time went on the German enlisted men begin to think that the Russians weren't giving up. But rather leading them somewhere deep within Russia. Hitler and the commanders heck bent on destroying Russia were to blind to see what was happening. By the time they reached Moscow the supply lines and logistics were to long to supply what was needed to fight effectively. All the while Stalin was holding back his ace in the hole and stalling until the time was right. Winter hit and when it did Stalin pulled his ace out of Siberia. Fresh troops and equipment that were trained and ready to fight in the harshest of conditions. And back to Berlin they went.

 

[MarkB_MI]

They would blow the turret off from those cheap poor built Sherman's we had at that time. Sherman was a salmon can compared to the panzer and tigers. In fact if you pay attention to Carl Malden In Patton he tells the operators that managed to live long enough to tell it said that to him the Sherman when hit by a German tank the rivets just bounced around in there a bit like shrapnel.

Patton is a great movie, but it's not a documentary. (Although Omar Bradley, played by Carl Malden, was a consultant on the film.)

In fact, the Germans in North Africa, including Erwin Rommel, had great respect for the Allied tanks. Although they got better tanks towards the end of the North Africa campaign, the early German tanks weren't very good. And they had trouble knocking out Allied tanks like the British Matilda until they started using their anti-aircraft guns against them. And it was the 88 mm antiaircraft gun that was so lethal to Allied tanks, leading it to be used as the main gun on the German Tiger tank.

It's important to understand that according to US Army doctrine in WWII, tanks were an infantry support weapon and weren't supposed to go up against other tanks. That was the job of specialized 'tank destroyer' units who used towed artillery and fast self-propelled tank destroyers to knock out enemy tanks. Experiences with this tactic lead to the development of modern 'main battle' tanks.

 

[MarkB_MI]

My FIL enlisted in the army right after WWII. (He would have enlisted sooner, but wasn’t old enough) Since he was fluent in German, he did his time in Germany and Austria to help the rebuilding effort and was in charge of dome ex-German soldiers. They told him that Germany lost the war because if a tank needed major repair, the German tank crew had to do the repairs themself. If an American tank needed major repair, the Americans just got themselves a brand new tank.
And they were probably right.

I'm sure it seemed that way. In fact, the Shermans were relatively easy to repair compared to the German tanks. And the US was turning out Shermans and shipping them overseas at a rate Germany could never match.

The heavy German tanks were so unreliable that if they needed to be transported any distance they were shipped by railway. The inability of the Germans to quickly reposition their armor when they realized the Normandy invasion wasn't a feint was a significant factor in the Allies' success.

 

[olddog]

Just watched a documentary on WWII US v German Tanks. No matter the size, the US advantage was communication. The US had an advanced
FM radios while the Germans were using weak noisy AM Radio. When, in the chaos of battle, they couldn't talk to their commanders or each other
because of the poor radios, we could still organize and fight as a unit.

 

[Ericp351]

Is this a TRACTOR, or FARM question? Interesting, yet out of place! Not unlike Tim Walz in a boy's room.... Post Script--"Air Start" is unspecific. Medium diesels, think locomotive size, tend to use 1 to 3 air start motors. The Largest inject HP Air directly...

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Is this a TRACTOR, or FARM question? Interesting, yet out of place! Not unlike Tim Walz in a boy's room.... Post Script--"Air Start" is unspecific. Medium diesels, think locomotive size, tend to use 1 to 3 air start motors. The Largest inject HP Air directly...

Oh, get off me. Starting Diesel engines in cold weather.... wtf difference does it make what they're in?

 

[paul]

My father used a propane torch in a stovepipe to warm the JD350 crawler, but he caught it on fire one winter.

Minnesota here.

Dad was good at getting things warmed up a bit.

A 3-5 gallon pail of hot water can transfer a lot of btus for a short time. The egg washing bucket was wider and shorter, fill with hot water and sit under something for 15 minutes.

It’s good to remember those days, when I get a fuel filter gelled up or exposed pipe froze or some such, don’t need to fumble with a flame or propane torch, just a little hot water….

Paul

 

[DRussell]

Minnesota here.

Dad was good at getting things warmed up a bit.

A 3-5 gallon pail of hot water can transfer a lot of btus for a short time. The egg washing bucket was wider and shorter, fill with hot water and sit under something for 15 minutes.

It’s good to remember those days, when I get a fuel filter gelled up or exposed pipe froze or some such, don’t need to fumble with a flame or propane torch, just a little hot water….

Paul

My grandpa always thawed frozen water pipes with hot water.

Dieter Krieg, the editor of Farmshine, used to write in Farmshine about his dad draining the radiator of a tractor at the end of using it each day and filling it with hot water when starting it the next day. He said the warm water really helped it start easier.