Z-134 rocker arm lubrication

[pomester]

I've rebuilt a Z-134 in a TO-35, got it running today, very sweetly. Idled down and adjusting the valves, I observed oil pulsing out between the #3 shaft support tower (second from the rear) toward the #3 cylinder exhaust valve. See picture. Halfway down the shaft just to the right of the bolt. Wish I knew how to attach a video...

Oil is coming out at each of the rockers (corks are in place at each end of the shaft), but 90% of it is coming out this location.

I'm guessing I need to pull the assembly, disassemble and see what's going on? This can't be 'normal' can it? Does the shaft disassemble by removing the keeper at the end of the shaft? Everything just slide apart?

 

[Bruce(OR)]

Everything slides apart after you take a pic.

 

[Mad Farmer]

(quoted from post at 20:11:55 12/23/23)

I'll be watching this thread.

I just got a TO30 which I think has the same rocker shaft?

I've not gotten to adjusting the valves, yet, but have looked over the Ferguson service manual.

It mentions the wear areas are the rocker bushings/that area of shaft, and the rocker tips that contact the valve.

Did you have the shaft apart?

These are the pages for inspecting the shaft/rockers

 

[pomester]

Which manual is this? The Ferguson manual doesn't mention any press. I think there must be some differences between the Z134 and Z129 shafts, I don't think the Z129 uses corks in the end of the shaft.

Family is getting together today, unlikely I'll do anything with this project for a day or two.

It has been a challenge at every step of this overhaul. I took it apart in early February of 2023. Maybe I can do a thread on it soon. The tractor doesn't look bad, but this engine and many of its components were worn out. I shouldn't be surprised that the rocker shaft assembly will require extra attention also.

I expect there will be wear issues beyond stated tolerances. What to do then? There's used assemblies available, probably worn also. There's new (Indian? Chinese?) assemblies being sold, I've seen them dissed here. I doubt there's much OEM stuff available, at least at an affordable price.

I'll see, I guess. I'll post as things progress.

 

[Mad Farmer]

(quoted from post at 06:54:07 12/24/23)

Your work looks great! I've just been trying to get my TO-30 (engine)/TO-20 (chassis) FrankenFergy going to work for this winter. Done lots of motors but 1st time working on a Continental engine. I was going to adjust valves as I had to repair gas tank/took it off, but good weather was gone and I'm working outside. My valves won't get adjusted running until spring. I think I'm ready for snow....? Have it running and tire chains on.....

I'm hoping for you the location of oil from the shaft is normal. I've not found a diagram of the oil galleys/path of flow yet. Maybe soon an old farmer mechanic will enlighten us.

Screen shots are from the real deal TE/TO-20 TO-30 Ferguson Shop Manual, I got it as a PDF.

The manual does mention plugs at the ends of the shaft for the 20/30 engines.

I'm dumbfounded as to using a press to take the shaft apart also? Perhaps needed for galled/scored rockers/shaft, looks like everything should slide off.

The other picture shows some sort of spacer to compress the springs to remove the locating pin on the shaft, when taking apart/together. I'm sure that can be fabricated from a block of wood.

When you get past the holidays put a caliper or a mic on the shaft to see if it is same diameter, if so the tolerances should be the same and what I posted should apply to yours.

As far as parts I'm just learning best sources. I'd rather use used OEM, in good condition, than Chi-Com junk. A good machinist could probably fit a bushing to a rocker but a shaft would be much more work.

 

[pomester]

The kids headed back to the city so I slipped out to the shop. I went to the bone pile and found a TO30/Z-129 rocker shaft assembly that came with a parts tractor as part of a deal a couple years ago.

They appear to be the same except for the ends of the shaft. The TO30/Z-129 shaft has hex plugs that screw in, TO35/Z-134 shaft is sealed with cork and a cotter pin. Seems like a design step backwards on the face of it.

I've got the 129 shaft soaking in solvent while I do some more research.

Edit: Our host sells new assemblies, the same part number for both the Z-129 and Z134 engines.

This post was edited by pomester on 12/24/2023 at 04:33 pm.

 

[Mad Farmer]

(quoted from post at 17:30:35 12/24/23)

This post was edited by pomester on 12/24/2023 at 04:33 pm.

Interesting. The replacement sold here is the "newer" style "corked" ends. I wonder if those allow some leakage to better lubricate the valves on the ends of the head? Or were just cheaper to manufacture.

Good thing is you seem to be rolling in OEM parts. The rockers and caps are the same. Only thing I see that might be different are possibly the two end springs, and the shafts/caps.

I'm still wondering where the "normal" oil seepage from the shaft is when it's running? As I said I've not adjusted mine running yet.

Did you have to adjust the valves much from the cold lash?

I'd put off taking the shaft apart until we hear from someone who has experience adjusting the valves while running. But..........you'd only have your time into checking things.

 

[pomester]

I decided to go back to the shop. Cleaned up the Z-129 shaft, pulled the original from the engine and installed the alternate, adjusted the lash, and fired up the engine. This shaft had a major leak from under the #2 exhaust rocker. A much larger leak than the original.

I let it run and warm up and set the valve lash hot while I thought about things.

While the engined idled, I disassembled the original shaft to the point of the leak.

Turns out there is a small hole drilled in the shaft where I was observing the oil leak.

Dunno -

I reassembled the shaft, I do note there was quite a bit of wear on the support tower where the springs push the rocker into the unit.

I'm going to re-install the original shaft tomorrow and button things up.

 

[Steve@Advance]

There is supposed to be a pin in the small hole to orient the shaft with
the oil holes in the proper position. It sits in the slot in the stand.

As for the end plugs, as far as I know they were all cork from the factory.
It is common to find them replaced with various type plugs because it is
easier to find or make plugs from something laying around the shop than
procuring cork.

As for adjusting the valves, I set them warm and not running, then start it up on a nurse bottle, and listen and check running before putting everything back together. Of course, the final adjustment is done after running up to temperature and retorquing the head bolts!

 

[Mad Farmer]

(quoted from post at 21:42:10 12/24/23)

MERRY CHRISTMAS everybody!

Steve thanks for giving some advice from hands on experience.

I have the Ferguson IPLs for the TO/TE-20 TO-30, an Aug 1951 and also a March 1973 version. I can give a URL for free downloads if anyone wants these (it also has service/owners manuals and a ton more for other tractors/equipment)?

The pin is mentioned in the service manual to hold and locate the shaft in relationship to the towers/head, and in the IPL(s).

From the 1951 pictures it shows threaded end plugs but also lists two types, does not mention threads/differences. The 1973 IPL clearly states threaded vs non-threaded. The 1973 also shows only threaded for TO-30/Z129

Concerning @pomester leaking problem I would swap out the galled support tower with a good one from the Z129 assy and make sure the shaft has the locating pin (per IPL 5/32 X 5/8 ). As far as I can tell from the IPLs the towers never changed.

Also learned a few more things TO-20/30. Heads are different intake valves are bigger TO-30? Also original ex valves did not have stellite seats, but were available as service item along with stellite inserts for the head seats. Something to think about if doing a rebuild.

I don't have any TO-35 manuals, did the valves increase in size on those?

51

73

This post was edited by Mad Farmer on 12/26/2023 at 01:02 am.

 

[Duner Wi]

Take a look at 1750065M1 for rocker arm bushing only. .813 OD. I have seen rocker arms that are about .750 OD also so measure first. More than likely gave to ream to size.

 

[pomester]

Good catch on the pin. I don't know if I would have figured it out on my own or not, thank you. I won't deny that there's been frustration surrounding this overhaul that's drug on for over 9 months.

Anyway, went to the shop after lunch, pulled the shaft from the engine, disassemble both shafts, and looked over what I had.

The pin associated with the Z-129 shaft.

The Z-129 shaft is quite worn, no wonder that rocker was spewing oil.

The Z-134 shaft showed little wear, and there happened to be just one 3/32 roll pin in the roll pin drawer...

Unlike the shaft, the Z-129 support towers showed much less wear than the Z-134, so I assembled the shaft with the Z-129 support towers and the Z-134 rockers/springs/etc.

Leftovers:

Frankenshaft installed and running. Lash adjusted, sounds great, oiling more evenly between rockers. I'll let things cool off and button things up.

 

[pomester]

 

[Mad Farmer]

pin should be 5/32 X 5/8 (see IPL), was that a typo?

Glad it's up and running, and hoarding old parts can be a good thing........

This post was edited by Mad Farmer on 12/25/2023 at 11:44 pm.

 

[pomester]

#52 - pin is definitely smaller than 5/32"

 

[Mad Farmer]

(quoted from post at 08:29:49 12/26/23) #52 - pin is definitely smaller than 5/32"

Hmmm? The 1973 TO-20/30 IPL above has the same pin part number and lists it as 5/32. Typo in IPL? The early 1951 IPL has different part # and no size given.

Is your IPL for TO-35 I assume? One or the other IPL must be incorrect.

I just downloaded a TO-35 IPL, shows different part # for shafts, but towers/supports the same, as is the pin listed as 3/32.

Did you measure the pin or match it up? Might be good to know for correct reference.

BTW, nice looking tractor. Look forward to seeing a write up on the work.

 

[Mad Farmer]

I found a diagram in the TO-30 op manual for oiling (p.21).

Oil travels up from rear crank journal through block, to head, through rear rocker support to the rocker shaft, to rockers. Exits between rocker/shaft gaps.

Rocker pivots on valves/pushrods must be splash/drip.

 

[pomester]

The rockers have a passage that directs oil to the pushrods.

The oil dribbles out a passage next to the threads and down onto the pushrod. Barely visible in the photo.

 

[Mad Farmer]

(quoted from post at 17:48:27 12/26/23) The rockers have a passage that directs oil to the pushrods.

The oil dribbles out a passage next to the threads and down onto the pushrod. Barely visible in the photo.

Thanks. Details you can't know about without having the parts in hand. I guess that passage is another thing to clean on a rebuild.

Concerning the locating pin. Did you measure the pin, have an actual 3/32" or just match one up? One of the Ferguson IPLs must have a typo.

 

[pomester]

Thanks. Details you can't know about without having the parts in hand. I guess that passage is another thing to clean on a rebuild.

Concerning the locating pin. Did you measure the pin, have an actual 3/32" or just match one up? One of the Ferguson IPLs must have a typo.

3/32" - mistakes do exist in the various publications. One of the most notorious is the instruction to torque the governor attaching nut to 85ft/pounds, which usually breaks the camshaft. (35ft/pounds is the appropriate figure).