48 B Water flowing directly into crankcase (>2 qts/min)

[Mnethercutt]

Folks,

Put the head back on my (newish to me) 48 B today. When I purchased it, previous owner didn't know when it last ran, and as would be expected it had a few stuck valves. Took the head off, unstuck the valves, did a valve grind, and put everything back together. Today I got out, installed the new head gasket and bolted the head on. I started to fill the radiator with water for the tractors first test run in probably 15+ years and I heard a bubbling sound. At first I thought it was just air getting out of the system, but boy was I wrong when about 10 seconds later water started running out of the belt pulley.

Somehow I've got more than a 2 quarts per minute of water flowing directly from the cooling system into the crankcase. What in the world did I do wrong?

Some things to consider:
-All 4 studs for the manifold snapped off so I drilled out the holes, tapped them, and am now using grade 5 bolts instead of studs (which I put sealant on the end of to prevent leaks)
-I used a new head gasket kit which came with copper washers. I soaked the gasket in oil, placed it on the studs, then put the head on, then the washers and nuts. Are there any washers that are supposed to go between the head and the block? From my reading in the service manual and several YouTube videos I feel like I installed the head and new gasket correctly.
-Head is B2501R. I visually inspected the 2 pushrod sleeves but didn't see anything wrong with them.

Any thoughts? I understand with a tractor that sat for 15 years there could be cracks or pinholes, but the fact that its literally pouring water into the crankcase as fast as I can fill the radiator makes me think either I really screwed up something on install or there's a part missing somewhere. What are my options for troubleshooting?

Thanks!

 

[wore out]

Folks,

Put the head back on my (newish to me) 48 B today. When I purchased it, previous owner didn't know when it last ran, and as would be expected it had a few stuck valves. Took the head off, unstuck the valves, did a valve grind, and put everything back together. Today I got out, installed the new head gasket and bolted the head on. I started to fill the radiator with water for the tractors first test run in probably 15+ years and I heard a bubbling sound. At first I thought it was just air getting out of the system, but boy was I wrong when about 10 seconds later water started running out of the belt pulley.

Somehow I've got more than a 2 quarts per minute of water flowing directly from the cooling system into the crankcase. What in the world did I do wrong?

Some things to consider:
-All 4 studs for the manifold snapped off so I drilled out the holes, tapped them, and am now using grade 5 bolts instead of studs (which I put sealant on the end of to prevent leaks)
-I used a new head gasket kit which came with copper washers. I soaked the gasket in oil, placed it on the studs, then put the head on, then the washers and nuts. Are there any washers that are supposed to go between the head and the block? From my reading in the service manual and several YouTube videos I feel like I installed the head and new gasket correctly.
-Head is B2501R. I visually inspected the 2 pushrod sleeves but didn't see anything wrong with them.

Any thoughts? I understand with a tractor that sat for 15 years there could be cracks or pinholes, but the fact that its literally pouring water into the crankcase as fast as I can fill the radiator makes me think either I really screwed up something on install or there's a part missing somewhere. What are my options for troubleshooting?

Thanks!

With the valve cover & the crankcase cover removed you should be able to see what's going on.

 

[Randy G.]

Cracked block?

 

[greenmech]

Folks,

Put the head back on my (newish to me) 48 B today. When I purchased it, previous owner didn't know when it last ran, and as would be expected it had a few stuck valves. Took the head off, unstuck the valves, did a valve grind, and put everything back together. Today I got out, installed the new head gasket and bolted the head on. I started to fill the radiator with water for the tractors first test run in probably 15+ years and I heard a bubbling sound. At first I thought it was just air getting out of the system, but boy was I wrong when about 10 seconds later water started running out of the belt pulley.

Somehow I've got more than a 2 quarts per minute of water flowing directly from the cooling system into the crankcase. What in the world did I do wrong?

Some things to consider:
-All 4 studs for the manifold snapped off so I drilled out the holes, tapped them, and am now using grade 5 bolts instead of studs (which I put sealant on the end of to prevent leaks)
-I used a new head gasket kit which came with copper washers. I soaked the gasket in oil, placed it on the studs, then put the head on, then the washers and nuts. Are there any washers that are supposed to go between the head and the block? From my reading in the service manual and several YouTube videos I feel like I installed the head and new gasket correctly.
-Head is B2501R. I visually inspected the 2 pushrod sleeves but didn't see anything wrong with them.

Any thoughts? I understand with a tractor that sat for 15 years there could be cracks or pinholes, but the fact that its literally pouring water into the crankcase as fast as I can fill the radiator makes me think either I really screwed up something on install or there's a part missing somewhere. What are my options for troubleshooting?

Thanks!

More than likely the push rod tubes are leaking. Maybe when you drilled, you went too far. You can replace them with the head on. Ron MN

 

[Richard G.]

More than likely the push rod tubes are leaking. Maybe when you drilled, you went too far. You can replace them with the head on. Ron MN

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

I did that before with too long a bolt in the manifold hole where the studs go. They are brass tubes on a b easy to drive in and drive out but it is easier done with the head on the workbench...if you pull the valve cover like they said you might even be able to tell which one. That’s where it leaked out the worst for me right out the pushrod hole.

 

[Resting Relic]

Yes, I wpould bet money the brass push rod tubes are where your issue is. Either completely incidental or you damaged one or all of them somehow. You can change them with the head in place but it's not easy to get them out. Going in is esay. Good Luck! John

 

[Mnethercutt]

Sounds like the consensus is the push rod tubes. I'll check them Saturday when i'm back at the tractor.

Does anyone have detailed instructions on the process of removing them while the head is on the tractor, or better yet a YouTube video showing the process? I've seen a few posts about tapping the tubes and using a bolt to pull them out but I don't fully understand the process. Any tips appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[greenmech]

Sounds like the consensus is the push rod tubes. I'll check them Saturday when i'm back at the tractor.

Does anyone have detailed instructions on the process of removing them while the head is on the tractor, or better yet a YouTube video showing the process? I've seen a few posts about tapping the tubes and using a bolt to pull them out but I don't fully understand the process. Any tips appreciated.

Thanks!

Just run a tap in there and use a bolt with a sleeve and nut to pull it out. Ron MN

 

[Mnethercutt]

Just run a tap in there and use a bolt with a sleeve and nut to pull it out. Ron MN

Ron do you happen to know what size tap I'll need? I have a tap set but it only goes up to 1/2". Trying to avoid going up to where the tractors are Saturday and not having the right tool.

Thanks!

 

[620 John]

Ron do you happen to know what size tap I'll need? I have a tap set but it only goes up to 1/2". Trying to avoid going up to where the tractors are Saturday and not having the right tool.

Thanks!

I did my A with a 5/8" tap. It was a little loose but I managed to get it out. I would think it'd be the same for the B. I think the key is to have the bolt threaded in a long ways before pulling so it has maximum pull strength. You might be better off with threaded rod because finding full threaded bolts is not easy. This way you can use a nut to do the actual turning and keep the threaded rod from turning in the sleeve. You'll have less of a chance stripping the threads in the sleeve if the rod does not turn.

 

[greenmech]

Ron do you happen to know what size tap I'll need? I have a tap set but it only goes up to 1/2". Trying to avoid going up to where the tractors are Saturday and not having the right tool.

Thanks!

I agree with 620 and go with 5/8 tap. Ron MN

 

[Mnethercutt]

Well, if you guessed push rod tubes, you win the million dollars. Borescoped both and one of them I completely drilled through...

I got one of them out using the tap trick, but unfortunately the other (which is also the one I drilled through) is stuck solid. I tapped it with a 5/8" tap, but the bolt I used to extract it just pulled through the threads. I think the ID of the tube is worn down and there isn't enough material for the threads on the bolt to grab no matter how far I screw it in.

Is there any way to get it out at this point without removing the head? I'd like to try tapping to 11/16, but I can't find a bolt with 11/16 thread size. Closest I can find is on McMaster and its an 11/16 puller screw for $42...

Any other options or am I looking at having to suck it up and pull the head off again?

Thanks1

 

[Mark-Ia]

You can buy new pushrod tubes from www.handjmachining.com. Much cheaper than John Deere. You might just need to remove the head and replace the head gasket.

 

[J.Wondergem]

Well, if you guessed push rod tubes, you win the million dollars. Borescoped both and one of them I completely drilled through...

I got one of them out using the tap trick, but unfortunately the other (which is also the one I drilled through) is stuck solid. I tapped it with a 5/8" tap, but the bolt I used to extract it just pulled through the threads. I think the ID of the tube is worn down and there isn't enough material for the threads on the bolt to grab no matter how far I screw it in.

Is there any way to get it out at this point without removing the head? I'd like to try tapping to 11/16, but I can't find a bolt with 11/16 thread size. Closest I can find is on McMaster and its an 11/16 puller screw for $42...

Any other options or am I looking at having to suck it up and pull the head off again?

Thanks1

Can you get something at the edge and peel it out?

 

[620 John]

Could maybe try a metric tap. M18 would be bigger than 5/8 but a little smaller than 3/4. The next problem would be finding a bolt. By the time you buy special tap and bolt you might be better off pulling the head.

Another option to maybe try is a cape chisel. Problem is you might not be able to get the rear portion of the sleeve to come loose

 

[Fixingfarmer]

Pull it off push it out with right size socket hammer and extension. If you are a new head gasket person they are available individually although not from this particular website. If you are a throw it together person copper coat and check if it seals.

 

[Mnethercutt]

Folks,

Put the head back on my (newish to me) 48 B today. When I purchased it, previous owner didn't know when it last ran, and as would be expected it had a few stuck valves. Took the head off, unstuck the valves, did a valve grind, and put everything back together. Today I got out, installed the new head gasket and bolted the head on. I started to fill the radiator with water for the tractors first test run in probably 15+ years and I heard a bubbling sound. At first I thought it was just air getting out of the system, but boy was I wrong when about 10 seconds later water started running out of the belt pulley.

Somehow I've got more than a 2 quarts per minute of water flowing directly from the cooling system into the crankcase. What in the world did I do wrong?

Some things to consider:
-All 4 studs for the manifold snapped off so I drilled out the holes, tapped them, and am now using grade 5 bolts instead of studs (which I put sealant on the end of to prevent leaks)
-I used a new head gasket kit which came with copper washers. I soaked the gasket in oil, placed it on the studs, then put the head on, then the washers and nuts. Are there any washers that are supposed to go between the head and the block? From my reading in the service manual and several YouTube videos I feel like I installed the head and new gasket correctly.
-Head is B2501R. I visually inspected the 2 pushrod sleeves but didn't see anything wrong with them.

Any thoughts? I understand with a tractor that sat for 15 years there could be cracks or pinholes, but the fact that its literally pouring water into the crankcase as fast as I can fill the radiator makes me think either I really screwed up something on install or there's a part missing somewhere. What are my options for troubleshooting?

Thanks!

I think I found the problem...

 

[cushman]

I think I found the problem...

It certainly does look like you found the problem.