Starter or solenoid bad?

[JMOR]

Maybe I don't read carefully enough, but I see no answers in all the many responses that addresses his original question..."starter or solenoid bad?" Real easy and simple, use two screwdrivers, or pliers, or jumper cable to bridge the two large solenoid terminals to each other. If it spins over much better than when engaging the solenoid normally, then replace the solenoid....if still spins the same, then solenoid is not your problem...keep on looking.

 

[Larry Barnes]

Motor Test Starter Motor. VERIFY ALL YOUR WIRING IS CORRECT B4 powering up anything. Angle Mount Distributor is timed via side inspection cover to access flywheel hash marks. BREAKER POINTS GAPPED AT .025" ... MANUALS

TPD

Just looked via the side inspection cover. Saw the "pointer" but didn't see the hash marks. Will study the web to see what they look like. And get a better flashlight. Are they just lines on the flywheel in front of the teeth?

 

[Jim L WA]

Larry, You cleaned the battery connections and it still won't start you say. Since it's a side mount, here is a simple test to see if the timing is too far advanced and kicking the starter. Just pull out either end of the large wire that goes from the distributor to the coil and see if the cranking still slows with the key on. If it does, then that's not the problem.

 

[JMOR]

Just looked via the side inspection cover. Saw the "pointer" but didn't see the hash marks. Will study the web to see what they look like. And get a better flashlight. Are they just lines on the flywheel in front of the teeth?

I 'think' this photo is 8N flywheel timing

marks. Should have labeled it better about14 years ago

 

[soaked]

Here are two 8n flywheels, and a t square.
Newer 8n stamping has wider hash marks.
Remember there are two sets of marks, 180 degrees apart. Allows timing lite to work on any plug wire.
Fw on the right shows the slot thats covered when a ring gear is installed.

Your Profile has posts of your distributor being 180 degrees out, and that you only found one mark on your fw. Is this the same 8n?

 

[Eman85]

Hi Guys, after a long step by step study of why my 8N won't start in this cold weather, I accidentally discovered that the Ford's motor turns over much slower when the key switch is turned "on," than when it is left "off." I had replaced the two-year old 6-volt battery, thinking that was the problem. While the motor spins nicely when "off," turn the key to "on" and it slows to a "rump-rump' and the engine won't fire. Does a solenoid fade away when it gets old, or just die? Or is it the starter itself that's going bad? What's eating the power?
Thanks for your input!

Does this tractor run? What are you or we trying to diagnose?

 

[Larry Barnes]

I 'think' this photo is 8N flywheel timing View attachment 3541marks. Should have labeled it better about14 years ago

Wow. Nice pix! But I didn't see anything like this though the inspection hole on my flywheel. Course, I'm just bumping the starter button to advance it. Maybe I just haven't got lucky enough for it to stop in front of the window?

 

[Jim.ME]

Wow. Nice pix! But I didn't see anything like this though the inspection hole on my flywheel. Course, I'm just bumping the starter button to advance it. Maybe I just haven't got lucky enough for it to stop in front of the window?

Turn it by hand so you can look to find the marks as you turn it or keep bumping the starter and maybe it will stop in the right place sooner or later.

 

[Larry Barnes]

Does this tractor run? What are you or we trying to diagnose?

Hi Eman85 and others:

The story is that a couple months ago I unhooked my brush hog, hooked up my snow blade, and power washed the tractor (probably NOT a good idea). But started it right up, ran it for a bit, then I parked it in the barn. Barn is heated to 40 degrees. About a month a ago I needed to scrape snow, but it wouldn't start.

Cleaned and checked the points and replaced the plugs ( correct Autolites), cleaned the sediment bowl, took off the carburetor and cleaned all the holes and jets, etc., etc. Wondered if the the gas was too old (or got wet from the washing) and added 2 oz. of Seafoam. Bought a new 6 volt battery and cleaned all connections because it was cranking slow. Made sure all the plug wires were in the correct position with firing order 1-2-4-3. Got good spark. Carb back on. Won't start. Choke or no choke. 1/4 throttle and half throttle, no start. Rechecked the plugs. Not too wet, still got spark. Stuck my finger on each hole. Good compression. Won't start. Get one loud "pow" each time.

OK, I think maybe that means it's not timed right. (But remember, I drove it in the barn, so timing could not have changed just sitting there.) But hey, just checking (.025)and I know that cleaning the points may have changed that, so I loosened the bolt that holds the distributor in place, and rotated it from full advance to full retard positions and everywhere between. Still no start, just a "pow" now and then. Tried starting fluid. Just a bigger "POW" and no start.

So now, that's why I want to double check and/or reset the timing. But I can't find the marks on my flywheel. So it's back to the finger down #1 hole to find TDC. (That's hard to do when I can't see the points because I'm stretching to reach the starter button. So how do you know when you are actually at TDC? I feel the big puff, but it don't the pistons stop at the exact point, do they.? Or is that close enough to get it started, then use the timing light to get it spot on?

So after going through all these steps several times, it still won't start. Prided myself for years about not having to convert to 12 volt because it started so well. But now what do I do?

I appreciate you allowing me to vent my frustrations here, and look forward to reading your suggestions!

 

[JMOR]

Hi Eman85 and others:

The story is that a couple months ago I unhooked my brush hog, hooked up my snow blade, and power washed the tractor (probably NOT a good idea). But started it right up, ran it for a bit, then I parked it in the barn. Barn is heated to 40 degrees. About a month a ago I needed to scrape snow, but it wouldn't start.

Cleaned and checked the points and replaced the plugs ( correct Autolites), cleaned the sediment bowl, took off the carburetor and cleaned all the holes and jets, etc., etc. Wondered if the the gas was too old (or got wet from the washing) and added 2 oz. of Seafoam. Bought a new 6 volt battery and cleaned all connections because it was cranking slow. Made sure all the plug wires were in the correct position with firing order 1-2-4-3. Got good spark. Carb back on. Won't start. Choke or no choke. 1/4 throttle and half throttle, no start. Rechecked the plugs. Not too wet, still got spark. Stuck my finger on each hole. Good compression. Won't start. Get one loud "pow" each time.

OK, I think maybe that means it's not timed right. (But remember, I drove it in the barn, so timing could not have changed just sitting there.) But hey, just checking (.025)and I know that cleaning the points may have changed that, so I loosened the bolt that holds the distributor in place, and rotated it from full advance to full retard positions and everywhere between. Still no start, just a "pow" now and then. Tried starting fluid. Just a bigger "POW" and no start.

So now, that's why I want to double check and/or reset the timing. But I can't find the marks on my flywheel. So it's back to the finger down #1 hole to find TDC. (That's hard to do when I can't see the points because I'm stretching to reach the starter button. So how do you know when you are actually at TDC? I feel the big puff, but it don't the pistons stop at the exact point, do they.? Or is that close enough to get it started, then use the timing light to get it spot on?

So after going through all these steps several times, it still won't start. Prided myself for years about not having to convert to 12 volt because it started so well. But now what do I do?

I appreciate you allowing me to vent my frustrations here, and look forward to reading your suggestions!

"Made sure all the plug wires were in the correct position with firing order 1-2-4-3." I will say that those distributors rotate CCW and not CW..Are your 1-2-4-3 set in the CCW order?

 

[Eman85]

Buy a spark tester and do a 1/4" spark test, get crazy and do it on all 4 plug wires.

 

[Larry Barnes]

Maybe I don't read carefully enough, but I see no answers in all the many responses that addresses his original question..."starter or solenoid bad?" Real easy and simple, use two screwdrivers, or pliers, or jumper cable to bridge the two large solenoid terminals to each other. If it spins over much better than when engaging the solenoid normally, then replace the solenoid....if still spins the same, then solenoid is not your problem...keep on looking.

Good answer JMOR

 

[Larry Barnes]

"Made sure all the plug wires were in the correct position with firing order 1-2-4-3." I will say that those distributors rotate CCW and not CW..Are your 1-2-4-3 set in the CCW order?

Checked the plug wires and counted them out carefully in a counter clockwise 1-2-4-3 direction. Tomorrow I'm going to manually rotate the crank to TDC using a pencil in the hole to see when it's at it's high point. But that has to be on the power stroke, not the exhaust stroke. And you get the "puff" on the way up of the power stroke.
Right?

 

[wore out]

Checked the plug wires and counted them out carefully in a counter clockwise 1-2-4-3 direction. Tomorrow I'm going to manually rotate the crank to TDC using a pencil in the hole to see when it's at it's high point. But that has to be on the power stroke, not the exhaust stroke. And you get the "puff" on the way up of the power stroke.
Right?

If you are thinking you can find TDC of the piston by inserting a pencil into the sparkplug port it's time to move on to "Plan B" as the sparkplug is over the (side) valve area, NOT over the piston.

 

[Larry Barnes]

Larry, You cleaned the battery connections and it still won't start you say. Since it's a side mount, here is a simple test to see if the timing is too far advanced and kicking the starter. Just pull out either end of the large wire that goes from the distributor to the coil and see if the cranking still slows with the key on. If it does, then that's not the problem.

Simple test. I'll try that tomorrow

 

[Larry Barnes]

Buy a spark tester and do a 1/4" spark test, get crazy and do it on all 4 plug wires.

Got one, thanks

 

[JMOR]

If you are thinking you can find TDC of the piston by inserting a pencil into the sparkplug port it's time to move on to "Plan B" as the sparkplug is over the (side) valve area, NOT over the piston.

As wore out said,

 

[JMOR]

As wore out said,

...but you can see and even set a straw on each valve and when "on the rock" on #4, you will be at TDC-compression on #1

 

[JMOR]

...but you can see and even set a straw on each valve and when "on the rock" on #4, you will be at TDC-compression on #1

 

[JMOR]

https://imgur.com/FMa2ILQ