Small acreage profitability?

[will-max dairy]

Pete on just a few acres farm on you tube makes it on small acreage. I met him at half century last time

John T

"Pete on just a few acres farm"

Yeah, that guy.

I watched one of his videos and never watched again.

He was "accounting" how much it cost him to bale hay.

Oh... just a couple grand for this tractor... and another couple grand for a baler.... and another grand here and there for parts to rebuild them during the winters to like-new specifications...

Most of these prosperity gospel types hide all sorts of capital costs, sunk costs, nest eggs that got them started etc. etc.

All good...it's a free country... and I'm glad that he had enough money to have a shop and tools... and the time... to restore old equipment... and a good market...

But... to think that it's an easy recipe to emulate from scratch?

You only need to vary one or two things from their recipe. For instance, what if you need to work a full time job for health insurance? There goes the "time" to just hole up in your shop every winter to restore old equipment. What if the farmer's market is already crowded? What if you didn't already have the land either given to you... or paid for by working a good job for 20-30 years?

I get tired of seeing videos that rate mileage downhill in a tailwind...

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

"Pete on just a few acres farm"

Yeah, that guy.

I watched one of his videos and never watched again.

He was "accounting" how much it cost him to bale hay.

Oh... just a couple grand for this tractor... and another couple grand for a baler.... and another grand here and there for parts to rebuild them during the winters to like-new specifications...

Most of these prosperity gospel types hide all sorts of capital costs, sunk costs, nest eggs that got them started etc. etc.

All good...it's a free country... and I'm glad that he had enough money to have a shop and tools... and the time... to restore old equipment... and a good market...

But... to think that it's an easy recipe to emulate from scratch?

You only need to vary one or two things from their recipe. For instance, what if you need to work a full time job for health insurance? There goes the "time" to just hole up in your shop every winter to restore old equipment. What if the farmer's market is already crowded? What if you didn't already have the land either given to you... or paid for by working a good job for 20-30 years?

I get tired of seeing videos that rate mileage downhill in a tailwind...

Sounds like you went into it with a preconceived notion, didn't pay attention, and didn't watch the whole video, because I don't think you will find Pete saying, or even alluding, ANYWHERE, EVER that it is a "formula," that anyone can do what he is doing, that it's easy, or that he's getting rich doing it.

Pete's one of those rare positive, hype free presences on youtube. The only T&A on his channel are the TAs on his tractors.

 

[stoughtonfarmboy]

Amen brother. They want perfect hay, only pure domesticated grasses, no legumes, no "weeds," can't be dusty, and they act like they're doing you a favor by offering $2 a bale, but can they take the hay now and pay you next week...

Not to beat a dead horse (pun intended), but that is why I am lucky to only bale a small amount of hay for my sister-in-law and a couple others. Details in my earlier reply.

With only a 4 acre field of my own I would be looking for someone to bale it if I didn't do it myself.

That said, there are some horse owners who just have them as pets and want to feed them as long as they still can. So, 15 acres might be a workable hay operation.

 

[NY 986]

Be forwarned. Horse ladies can try your patience . When you start out you get all the ones who are baned elsewhere. Hold your ground.,accept only cash.

The horse hay market is dying around here anyways. For starters it is hard to get the dry days needed to make the hay the market covets. A lot of hay is coming out of the mid south and beyond where it is easier to make dry hay. Was not always this way but the weather patterns change over time. A lot of the people that I knew who sold to the horse market have repurposed most if not all of their acreage to other enterprises. The comment has been made that the local demand for hay is down but I would suspect that with the Amish the hay is coming from further away.

 

[NY 986]

Fritz is right. Horse people can be much different than cattle people about hay. If you have never put up hay before, don't count on producing hay acceptable to horse people right away. There is more to it than mow, rake, bale, sell. Best to have someone who feeds cattle, at least to start with, as you learn.

I would never guarantee to any prospective person that the horse market is a 100 percent proposition. Meaning most years a producer will have a percentage of their hay that the horse market will never buy. So the OP would need a plan to market or dispose of that hay. Also, the OP seems to have an issue that he cannot be assured of being available when the mower, rakes, baler, and wagon needs to roll.

 

[dhermesc]

She said, "I want to come out and see the field while you're mowing it." No show. Then, "I want to see the hay as you bale it." Gave a specific time, still no show. Got 150 bales ready..... "never mind, I don't want it. "

Agreed. I've had people that want to buy hay show up and walk the filed like they were looking for grapes to make high dollar wine. Then they openly curse you for the price you are charging them.

For guys that complain about what I charge for hay I tell them: Go buy a little bit of land - say 40 acres at $3000 - $5000 an acre, buy a tractor, baler, mower and rake along with trucks and trailers, then hand build a 40 X 60 hay shed. Then use your vacation days from work to run out and mow, rake, bale and hand stack the hay. After all that you too can be part of the massively profitable hay business.

 

[will-max dairy]

Sounds like you went into it with a preconceived notion, didn't pay attention, and didn't watch the whole video, because I don't think you will find Pete saying, or even alluding, ANYWHERE, EVER that it is a "formula," that anyone can do what he is doing, that it's easy, or that he's getting rich doing it.

Pete's one of those rare positive, hype free presences on youtube. The only T&A on his channel are the TAs on his tractors.

I don't have a problem with Pete himself. I don't have a problem with his videos.

It was someone else that mentioned... "hey... Pete did it... so can you"... I don't know Pete personally, so I don't even know if HE would agree with that statement.

All I know is, in the video that I watched, the costs that he came up with for how much it cost him to bale his own hay only included the cost of old tractors and machinery... and the parts.

Anybody using that type of information as incentive to start their own operation should know that there are many other costs and assumptions built into that. It would be interesting for someone to actually ask Pete that question to let him answer it directly. There is a good chance that even he would say "your mileage may vary..."

 

[hoosier.hz]

In my part of the world, you would have a hard time turning the equipment around. IMHO With that small of an acreage, you would have to grow some sort of labor intensive, high demand crop(s) to net much more than $100/acre.

PUMPKINS!!! You can sell them to Wal-Mart and they should be able to bring the trucks to you, good money, but a lot of work! I have been encouraged to do this in the past. You can still do this as I understand it, at least, that's the way I heard it.

 

[hoosier.hz]

PUMPKINS!!! You can sell them to Wal-Mart and they should be able to bring the trucks to you, good money, but a lot of work! I have been encouraged to do this in the past. You can still do this as I understand it, at least, that's the way I heard it.

And you are not very far from me at all! @MeAnthony

 

[J Wendt]

I make hay for our own use. I have sold hay at times. Most take a look and buy it, I don't care if you do or don't, But when you get some horse ladies you will never want to sell hay again,does Karen com to mind.

 

[Bill VA]

IMHO you can pencil out a profitable operation on that acreage with forage tested, top quality hay.

You need to differentiate yourself from everyone else that is selling anything less where you have lots of competition - sort of like going against Walmart, you need a niche. Top quality hay can be that niche.

With no onsite storage and an army of one, I’d be inclined to start with small round bales, 4x4 or 3ish x 4 in size. Round balers like the Hesston 530 make the smaller round bales. Horse customers like these small sizes as they can use their compact tractors to move them, they can roll the bales around by hand and haul them on their compact trucks/trailers.

Build your business for repeat customers.

if your Kioti has a loader, you might be able to use it to load/move the small round bales. Have customers lined up to buy the hay to the extent you can. If they don’t sell right away, a round bale is much better for leaving outside to the weather than squares. Horse customers want mold free hay so selling right a way is essential. If all else fails, and the bales get rain, mark down the price and sell to cow and goat hay customers. Either way you’ve generated income.

If your business builds up, then you might add a square baler.

Nice thing about hay is you can walk away from the “farm” for weeks or months at a time. Round bales would let you get going with minimal physical labor.

For a baling tractor, if your Kioti can’t handle it would be an old MF 165, maybe a 135. New Holland haybine, a cheap 2 basket tedder and rollabar rake - along with the round baler.

Best of luck!

 

[will-max dairy]

I would never guarantee to any prospective person that the horse market is a 100 percent proposition. Meaning most years a producer will have a percentage of their hay that the horse market will never buy. So the OP would need a plan to market or dispose of that hay. Also, the OP seems to have an issue that he cannot be assured of being available when the mower, rakes, baler, and wagon needs to roll.

I have underlined in red every add that lists round bales for 25 dollars and under.

All I did is search local craigslist with the term "round bales"

These are not Walmarts.

These are all people that thought they found a "niche."

And now they are selling large round bales for 25 bucks a pop... which works out to about a dollar and change per small square.

There ARE some ads for 55 dollar round bales. But those would be stored inside. And even then. 55 is the asking price. I don't know if they're actually moving at that price.

Also... round bale storage outside is VERY, VERY climate dependent. Southern Michigan, I would assume, could be subject to lake effect snow (and rain), similar to NYS. Here in NYS... I can take you for a drive within any five mile radius and show you examples of "bale henge"... rows of stacked round bales that someone thought would be OK to store outside, and they looked so bad after one winter, that they just left them to rot. This can be a lot of fun on rented ground... if you go to cut the backswath and you don't realize that there is an old pile of round bales almost rotted down and your mower loads up with all of that netwrap... or it wraps around an axle on your machinery and burns out a bearing...

I find that these arguments often do a logical switch... talk about how much a perfect bale of hay can bring at market... and then say, as an afterthought that there are ways to get rid of imperfect hay. Those ways will be at a very, very steep discount. There are only so many hedge rows around 15 acres of meadow to hide the round bales that don't make it to market...

 

[will-max dairy]

Hello,
Dad had a 14T, it was a good unit. He ran it with Farmalls, H and M. One year both were down and we borrowed the neighbor's Super C. Shook the snot out of that little tractor but got the job done. Had to bale it on the ground, as you weren't pulling the baler and a wagon behind that C. Ah, memories....
Thanks,
Anthony

From your replies, your age, skill set and temperament seem to lend themselves toward some small operation with reasonable equipment that might need a little mechanical TLC. My own comments here may seem to sound discouraging. I'm just trying to be realistic.

I need to sit down someday, and just for laughs, do a "Venn Diagram of Hay" with sets like:

Small squares
Small round bales
Large round bales
Horse quality
Dairy quality
Bedding quality
Sold out of the field
Stored Inside
Stored Outside
Local Delivery
Tractor Long Distance Delivery
etc., etc., etc.

And then throw prices per ton on the intersections of those sets.

lol

Because my peeve is that many times people talk about the price at one intersection in the same breath as talking about processes and quality that would be at another intersection...

 

[MeAnthony]

Can it be put in CRP(Conservation Reserve Program)? Last I knew the Gov. was paying around $350.00 an acre not to farm it.

Hello,
I spoke with a lady at Farm Service Agency in Jonesville today. She said it's a sliding scale, depending on richness of the soil and what is done with the land. $140/acre for top-end ground that isn't touched at all once signed into the program; $20 - $40/acre if I plant grasses and want to graze or bale it. Also no enrollment at this time, as they're waiting to see if the farm bill is approved....
Thanks,
Anthony

 

[paul]

During a mindless spate of using the tractor to clean driveways. I thought about "trolling" these Laura Farms types. How?

Treat a farm operation like the music executives treat boy bands... just hire four pretty faces.

I wondered how much someone would have to pay three or four young women that met three criteria:
-Like farm work.
-Single
-Pretty

And then set them up on any type of operation;
Make sure that they do all chores in full makeup and Daisy Dukes;

Start a youtube channel...

You could probably pay the young women fairly well and make a decent living for yourself.

What that says about farming and society? No comment.

I watch Sawing with Sandy and Peeks Peak on their videos. Couple guys with sawmills.

So now Tube suggests I watch other sawing videos. One that pops up often is two younger gals that seem to highlight a logging operation, but they are not dressed for log work in the click bait thumbnail for their videos.

I suspect you are right that such a thing would get a lot of views with mindless content. Honestly I haven’t checked, maybe it’s a legit logging operation. I’m usually about 4 feet away from the wife as I check Tube vids, so I’ve been too scared to check.

Paul

 

[J Wendt]

Unfortunately, even though the math regarding price per BTU works out, they just aren't that popular here in the US; unless you get up to the industrial-scale versions that take round bales.

My guess for boiler big enough for round bales would be at least 30k ️ great payback. Same reason I didn't replace my wood boiler. Let's face it this a hobby. Where do you want to spend your time and money. Or not.

 

[TheBartman47]

For guys that complain about what I charge for hay I tell them: Go buy a little bit of land - say 40 acres at $3000 - $5000 an acre, buy a tractor, baler, mower and rake along with trucks and trailers, then hand build a 40 X 60 hay shed. Then use your vacation days from work to run out and mow, rake, bale and hand stack the hay. After all that you too can be part of the massively profitable hay business.

Where I live, they want to add another zero to the price per acre of land.

 

[DoubleR]

Pete on just a few acres farm on you tube makes it on small acreage. I met him at half century last time

John T

If we are talking about the same Pete I'm thinking he had allot put away from the sale of his business and makes good money from his YouTube channel which might explain the new truck, cattle trailer, mini hoe, and the money needed to do all the restorations he does on old tractors. I'm sure he does ok with his farming ventures and he is a likeable guy and has good content on his channel. He lives a no frills life style. He's down to earth and up front I look forward to his new postings.

 

[will-max dairy]

My guess for boiler big enough for round bales would be at least 30k ️ great payback. Same reason I didn't replace my wood boiler. Let's face it this a hobby. Where do you want to spend your time and money. Or not.

I definitely smell what you're stepping in. The round bale boiler makes a lot of sense for something like a chicken facility near wheat fields. You can burn the straw to heat the facility. They also make a lot of sense over in Europe; where grain fields often border large residential neighborhoods. Europe has a "district heating" philosophy in many residential neighborhoods, where
1. A big, efficient boiler produces millions of BTUs per hour.
2. Insulated underground pipes carry the hot water (or steam) to the individual buildings.
3. The buildings pay a fee per volume of hot water (or steam) used.

Burning hay is like many things in farming... it pays if you do it so small that you are essentially doing "subsistence" agriculture and saving money by not buying from "the man"... or... you get big enough to become "the man"... most things in between just don't pencil out.

 

[ss55]

Hello,
Dad had a 14T, it was a good unit. He ran it with Farmalls, H and M. One year both were down and we borrowed the neighbor's Super C. Shook the snot out of that little tractor but got the job done. Had to bale it on the ground, as you weren't pulling the baler and a wagon behind that C. Ah, memories....
Thanks,
Anthony

You have had over one hundred responses, good input. When you work out a plan, please be sure to post back with your outcome.