Small acreage profitability?

[dhermesc]

Making money selling small squares is highly dependent on where you are. If you're in an area where hay is abundant and the customers are mostly large dairy farms, you're making hay for fun. You'll be lucky to break even on fuel and twine in a year.

I live in NE Kansas and the only thing that makes small square bales profitable are other hobby farmers and horse people. Neither of them usually have the ability to move big round/big square bales around. Small squares only require working hands and a back. All you need is a pickup to move them around. The issue with "horse people" is you have to be able to produce quality hay - small patches put up quick before it dries to straw or gets put up wet. And the issue is you are dealing with horse people.

 

[thelonepatriot]

For nearly 20 years I sold pumpkins every year, somewhere between 2,000 and 5,000. Over the years I added winter squash, about 400 to 800. I learned when I was looking through the seed catalogs for pumpkin seed to plant the description needed to include "long strong handles or stems". People rarely buy stemless pumpkins. Also grow a variety of sizes. Most kids seemed to prefer soccer ball sized pumpkins if they came to the patch. If I sold from a stand (usually a couple of flatbed trailers) they bought bigger pumpkins for more money. Generally when a carload of kids would stop each one got a pumpkin. When all I had was smaller pumpkins I would get about $10 per carload. When I started growing bigger pumpkins I would get $30 or more per carload. Another thing I did in the later years was grow some varieties that would ripen in August and sell them for fall decorations. Miniature pumpkins and gourds also sell very well. Medium and large gourds that didn't sell were left out in the weather and sold the next year as dried gourds for painting and as rattles to the local Native Americans.

Every year was a learning experience. I don't do it anymore because I don't have the health to do it. Every year on the first of November I would swear I would never do this again and then the seed catalogs would start showing up in the mail.......

For winter squash see what sells best in your area. I sold a lot of banana, sweet meat, hubbard, butternut, buttercup and spaghetti squash. This last summer I grew a medium sized squash (no pumpkins) patch with the intention of selling it but health issues prevented me from picking it by myself and I can't drive due to Parkinson's Disease. A group from my church came and picked the patch and most of it was given away. Hopefully next year I will have better control of the Parkinson's and be able to drive again.

My intention when posting the previous comment was to give an example of what could be done with a small space. In my case it was less than 2 acres. I didn't post it to brag or complain. I do miss being physically able to do those things but to be honest I was glad when a couple of corn mazes started up and took most of my business because people would buy their pumpkins at the maze. I never wanted to do a corn maze. I went to one of them and when I looked at all of the pumpkins that needed to be picked I was greatful that I didn't have to do it.

 

[fdt860]

If the soil is quite rich, you will make money regardless of what people said. At 6 dollars bushels, you make 16k a year on a 180 bushels crop. The time spent to actually farm 15 acres is nothing.
You will not make much money, due to equipment cost,but that is not even true,because your cost of ownership is lower than the bto.
- a deere 4020 does not loose value compared to the pile of recycled toilet seat tractors they sell you.
- Plus a 7500 dollars tractors on 15 acres is same than a 300 000 tractor on 600 acres.
- a massey 750 or deere 6600 bought running at scrap price or even less will not loose any money on the long run. Just the time fixing it. Cost per acre will be low. At least it is for me. I am not counting time to repair, because that time would be spent on doing more expensive activities.

If you like it, do it. I have a small field,even too small to have equipment big enough to use the 5020, but it is a good feeling to harvest your crop.

 

[JD Dave]

Your best bet is to sell direct to the customer, retail, which allows you to set your own prices. Then consider high-value crops like fruit or berries. But you must plug in all the variables. You can grow pumpkins this year but if you want to farm apples, you have to wait five years after you plant the trees.

 

[Mcrafty1]

I wonder what the exact root cause is. Yields were only a fraction what they are a century later. and half of the farm had to make feed for the horses. Government, state, local, what is it?

I think the fact that the government 'gave' you the 40 acres and the mule to settle the land, and all you were doing at that time basically was feeding yourself and your family ( most people of that era never went farther than 20 mi. from the farm...and rarely at that) Now we buy the land at farm ready land prices, and pay the governments (State, local maybe some even federal) for the right to be there, along with the fact that we need a much larger cookie jar( monetarily speaking) to sustain ourselves in today's world had a lot to do with it.

 

[Mark-Ia]

Can it be put in CRP(Conservation Reserve Program)? Last I knew the Gov. was paying around $350.00 an acre not to farm it.

 

[Hoofer B]

Plant it to grasses. Make grasshay one or two times a year. Will be good to go for years.

 

[BobnUt]

May be. But he will have the $100 they wasted on their little 50x50 patch of green acres. He will be willing to work with them. But he will not do it for them. The majority of towns people here either grew up on a farm or have family that owns farms. It will not be like plowing up a patch of dirt in Central Park for city dweller's to play in.

My wifes parents sold out to the county.
Part of the land became community gardens.
They charge $125 for a - wait for it ...... 4' x 16' plot !
And there is a waiting list every year. Yepp, and only organic methods.
I'd be going that route if you can
Meanwhile, I grow on 1 acre for fun, and donate a lot of it

 

[DoubleR]

I have a year around stand I sell bags of corn, bales of straw , and eggs. In the fall I sell pumpkins and fall decorations consisting of squash, all kinds of different pumpkins, along with corn stalk bundles, and the straw in the stand. I live on a busy road with allot of subdivisions around me and the town close buy. I sell usually 12 steers a year private sale in quarters, halfs, and wholes. I buy and feed out about 8 steers a year and buy a few market steers to resell. I plant 5 acers of corn a year and 4 acers of pumpkins and such for my fall stand. I buy shelled corn to mix with my ear corn and grind my own feed for cattle and chickens. I buy my straw and hay and a few items to add to the fall pumpkins. Also do a little custom tractor work. I have 12 acers and do alright and it keeps me moving in my retirement years

 

[ss55]

If the soil is quite rich, you will make money regardless of what people said. At 6 dollars bushels, you make 16k a year on a 180 bushels crop. The time spent to actually farm 15 acres is nothing.
You will not make much money, due to equipment cost,but that is not even true,because your cost of ownership is lower than the bto.
- a deere 4020 does not loose value compared to the pile of recycled toilet seat tractors they sell you.
- Plus a 7500 dollars tractors on 15 acres is same than a 300 000 tractor on 600 acres.
- a massey 750 or deere 6600 bought running at scrap price or even less will not loose any money on the long run. Just the time fixing it. Cost per acre will be low. At least it is for me. I am not counting time to repair, because that time would be spent on doing more expensive activities.

If you like it, do it. I have a small field,even too small to have equipment big enough to use the 5020, but it is a good feeling to harvest your crop.

There might be a farmers market in Jackson, 30 miles away, for sure there is one in Ann Arbor 60 miles away. You could haul vegetables to those farmers markets, but that will require extra labor. Selling garden plots two miles out of a town of 500-600 people, you might be lucky to sell maybe a dozen plots per year.

Renting it out or putting it in a government program might produce the best return on investment and your labor.

 

[47fivewindow]

I think to say each state has different regs is correct. In my state for example, (which is not Michigan), you do not need proof if your ag parcel is over 10 acres. If its under 10 acres, you do need to show proof each year you GROSSED at least $2500 annnually in order to keep the ag use valuation.

The rich folks around her raise alpacas. Every year you buy $2500. worth of mine and I'll buy $2500. of yours. We both gross $2500. plus a net loss for taxes.

 

[will-max dairy]

The rich folks around her raise alpacas. Every year you buy $2500. worth of mine and I'll buy $2500. of yours. We both gross $2500. plus a net loss for taxes.

Similar to registered cattle. Essentially a poker game where the regular players pass money back and forth; hoping to get a newcomer into the game every once in a while...

 

[will-max dairy]

My intention when posting the previous comment was to give an example of what could be done with a small space. In my case it was less than 2 acres. I didn't post it to brag or complain. I do miss being physically able to do those things but to be honest I was glad when a couple of corn mazes started up and took most of my business because people would buy their pumpkins at the maze. I never wanted to do a corn maze. I went to one of them and when I looked at all of the pumpkins that needed to be picked I was greatful that I didn't have to do it.

Patriot,

I hear you. Even though I wear the "I lost money farming" as a badge of honor; I still like to hear about some people that at least made enough to keep at it or maybe even put a little money away. It balances my cynicism.

Good health to you and your loved ones.

 

[MeAnthony]

Hello all,

My mom's long term renter recently told her he's downsizing and won't be renting her ground any longer. She's got 15 acres tillable and was getting about $1600 annually for rent. Location is about 2 miles west of North Adams, MI. I understand there a lot of inputs and time required to make any farming operation successful but geez, there's gotta be a way to make more than $100 an acres off a place?

I'm just outside Moscow, MI and have about 4 acres at home that I could do something with, other than spend my summer mowing it.
I have a Kioti 2620 tractor but not much else that would support a farming operation. I baled a lot of hay as a kid, loved doing that.... but that was 40 years ago and I may not survive such an endeavor today. At least not without several breaks...

A long time ago, mom's place was Anson Meeks' Potato Farm. I kinda thought it would be cool to go back to that, as I've not heard of anyone else here in south central Michigan growing potatoes. But.... is that viable, where's the market, etc?
My neighbor works on a farm and was telling me about food-grade soybeans? He said they're planted and harvested with the same equipment as regular soybeans but are exported directly to Japan?
I don't think a livestock operation would be sensible at mom's, as I'd have to make sure I get over there daily to check on things.
I'm also wondering about a chicken/egg facility, given the new law in Michigan about selling only cage-free eggs? I could fence off 3 1/2 acres here at home, build a couple chicken houses and buy a bunch of layers? A 2-dozen pack of eggs was over $7 at the store recently and I'd expect those prices will still go up a little?

But anyway.... I'd be willing to invest in some older equipment and learn what I need to in order to be successful at something but I don't know what is profitable on such small acreages?

Thanks for your time and suggestions, I do appreciate it.
Anthony

Good morning, all
It's been a crazy week, just now catching up. Lots of information here and it's given me some new directions to consider.
Thanks,
Anthony

 

[MeAnthony]

Orchard? I understand cherries do well in Michigan. More an investment of time than money since you won't be seeing a harvest for a few years.

Howdy!
I hadn't considered this but you have a good point. Glei's Orchard & Greenhouse is a local business and mom's property is next to a large section, guessing about 40 acres, where they rotate vegetables and grain crops with fruit trees in another area of it. So yes, I'd think cherries would be an option.
A few years ago they fenced the entire section at least 8' high, presumably to keep out wildlife. And thieves, I'm sure; regardless of the purpose that would be another factor to consider: accept the loses or invest in fencing. I'm not ruling out anything at this point, I just need to make a well-informed decision.

Thanks,
Anthony

 

[MeAnthony]

An ole boy here is trying something new with 5 acres.
He wants to divide it up into 50' x 50' plots. Put four of them together to make a 100' x 100' block laid out like a city with paths between each block. Then rent each plot out for $100 each for people to grow gardens on. For each 100 x 100 block he would get $400. It sounds a little corny to me but he has a lot of people that live in town interested in the idea with food prices and all.

Hello,
That's a pretty interesting idea!
A co-worker suggested sectioning it up, building a bunch of tiny cabins and renting glamping (glamour camping) spots. This seems like a disaster waiting to happen though. I like your idea much better.

Thanks,
Anthony

 

[MeAnthony]

Most enterprises in the farm sector require a very large investment or a lot of hired machinery to do much of any farming in a way that is profitable. I keep hearing about a deal where you would collect money for vegetables. Then once planted harvesting is dived by the shares prepurchased .Another words if Somebody bought 2 shares that would be their allotment of each picking lets say on string beans. Then the picking would be dived by the shares and they would either pick them up or you would deliver them. This would go on all season. IF the crop fails they are out the dollars. So they would be relying on your ability to grow a crop and also they would be out the money if it is a failure. I would suppose there would be some details I have not been told about in full on how these things would be done and everybody is happy/ content with the results of the season.

Hello,
I've heard of "herd share" programs, this sounds like the same philosophy applied to a grown crop though. Makes sense!
Thanks,
Anthony

 

[MeAnthony]

Unless you're willing to fully commit to farming, there's really nothing more profitable than renting. There will either be a significant investment in equipment, or time, but usually both. You're not going to go out there in the spring, scuff up the ground with your little Kioti, and throw some seeds around, then cash in in the fall.

If there was something low-overhead and profitable, every farmer would do it, and it would quickly cease to be low-overhead and profitable...

You mentioned potatoes. The situation around here is there is one massive grower, who has an exclusive contract to grow a specific type of potato for a large manufacturer of frozen potato products. There is no "potato elevator" where Farmer McGillicuddy can sell his pickup truck load of random spuds. If you grow potatoes, you have to direct-market them yourself to make any money at it. That means farmers' markets, and competing with all the other stands at the market that sell potatoes.

That's pretty much the case with most crops. Unless you're willing to commit full time to producing and marketing the product, which usually means quitting your day job, you're not going to be making any money at it. ON A SMALL SCALE.

Obviously if you've got hundreds or thousands of acres, it's a different story. You make it up on volume and economies of scale, and having what a buyer wants in the quantities they need.

Good morning,
I agree, it takes a lot of commitment and I don't expect to get rich off the place. I think it's way too small to be hugely profitable. My problem is I've always loved the thought of farming (especially the idea of being self-sufficient), the smell of freshly plowed ground, etc. Maybe that's all just a pipe dream. I sure hope not.
Thanks,
Anthony

 

[MeAnthony]

I'll approach this from a different perspective (and most folks will think I'm crazy): But... Why be so concerned about profitability?

Does your mother have sheds or barns to store equipment or hay? And do you like to tinker and fix old equipment? Given your original post and that you're writing on an antique tractor forum, I think the answer might be 'yes'. If so, why not try to have some fun doing hay or something similar. You probably won't make any money on it, but you probably won't lose much either. And there are way, way worse ways to spend time and money than tinkering with old equipment and trying your hand at old-time farming methods.

This is very much predicated on your willingness and enjoyment when tinkering with old equipment. If you don't like fixing things or figuring things out, this advice isn't for you. But if it were me (who loves to tinker and fix old equipment) and if you think there might be a market for more hay in the area, I'd be looking for an old NH hayliner in good shape, an old rolabar rake, an old 40-50 HP tractor with three point and live PTO, some basic tillage equipment, and have fun. Or you could get the same old tractor and tillage equipment and try potatoes/garlic/vegtables, but they're a little more maintenance-intensive and folks who try vegetables on small scales often lose interest as WESnIL notes above.

Whatever you do, you may quickly find it's not your cup of tea or that you're not making any money. But you'll only be in it about $5-$10k and can probably sell the equipment for as much as you paid for it. Compare that to some folks spending $50k on a boat or $80k on a sports-car or high-end truck.

I always get a little flamdoozled when some folks on here start talking and crunching numbers about profitability and trying to justify costs on small scale operations. Yes, those are definitely very important considerations, especially if farming is your primary source of income. But you can't always look strictly at your time-to-profit ratio as a metric of how to live your life. If you follow that logic to its ultimate conclusion, all of us on here should probably sell all our old tractors/equipment and stop posting on these forums and restoring old equipment.

From a profitability and time-input perspective, I'd be far further ahead to sell all my old tractors, replace them with one newer offshore utility tractor, and go work at McDonald's during my spare time instead of tinkering with old equipment. But where's the fun in that?

Ultimately, it all depends on what you like to do, and how much time and money you're willing to invest in a low-return operation.

Hello,
I'm 52; I've averaged 10 years each in construction, as a mechanic and now as a network engineer. I tried the fast food industry once; that lasted 4 days and then I got a factory job. More to your poitns:
No outbuildings at t his time; not an insurmountable obstacle.
I very much enjoy tinkering.
I don't think the investment in equipment would be huge. Just a few days ago I saw an ad for a running JD 4400 diesel for $1500; bean and grain heads available for extra $$$. Honestly seems like a darn good deal and about the right size....
Dad used letter-series Farmalls and hand-trip equipment back in the day. Somewhere I've got pictures from the late '70s or so with him up on the tractor grinning from ear to ear, JD 2-bottom hand trip plow hooked up... I'd love to have a collection of all the letter-series Farmalls too. They aren't overly practical but the are cool in my opinion.

Thanks,
Anthony

 

[MeAnthony]

Making money selling small squares is highly dependent on where you are. If you're in an area where hay is abundant and the customers are mostly large dairy farms, you're making hay for fun. You'll be lucky to break even on fuel and twine in a year.

Howdy,
I hate the fact that you're right but I also can't argue with the truth of what you say. I loved baling hay as a kid, too; one of my favorite things to do.
Thanks,
Anthony