"Lazarus": Bringing one back from the dead

[tsherry]

Probably not lights; both brackets are on the same fender.

Used camshaft arrived today. Just waiting on the engine kit and good things can then start happening. Well, except for the frozen solid oil pump and ditto for the governor. This thing is turning into a great home school project, making me feel like a 14 year old with 50 years experience.

 

[tsherry]

Well dang. The mystery continues.
Engine kit arrived today with the sleeve puller, 0.04 sleeves, pistons, rings, etc. Thought I'd try out the sleeve puller to see how tough it was going to be to remove the sleeves.

Sleeve puller dropped right through the cylinder.

The engine DOES NOT HAVE SLEEVES IN IT.

So, someone pulled the sleeves out in a prior rebuild, either just jammed in some pistons with rings they thought worked, I guess.

I dropped in--literally--the 0.04 sleeves that I thought that this engine would use, and they are loose in the bore.

So, did they bore the block to fit whatever rando piston they decided would work, or just not use the 0.09 sleeves that might've been used originally? I'll measure the bore tomorrow. Perhaps the 0.09 sleeves will fit; I'll need to return the 0.04's I just received.

SN is “star” 8N21515 “star”.

Thoughts?

 

[Non-farmer]

Probably not lights; both brackets are on the same fender.

Ya, when I first looked at the pic, I only saw the nearest bracket. It was later that I noticed the second one. Might not have had my glasses on the first time. My eyesight is good enough that I can function without any, but details often get overlooked when I do that.

 

[Non-farmer]

The sleeves should drop in, but some effort is normally required anyway. I put mine (.090) in the freezer overnight, and still had to tap a couple with a block of wood to get them all the way in.

When the puller falls right thru, you KNOW something's wrong.

 

[Duner Wi]

You can purchase pistons up to 3.375 inches that will fit your tractor.

 

[tsherry]

Good to know. Thanks. More shop time today to see what I have out there.

Edit: The parent bores for the blocks match the spec of the 0.09 sleeves; I'll send back the 0.04 set next week and wait for the right set to arrive.

 

[Jim L WA]

When I got into my 2N several years ago now, I found it with no sleeves. I was able to find rings through Egge Machine in Southern Cal. by giving them all the measurements. I had to buy a set of six rings that were labeled for a Kaiser / Fraser of all things. But they fit and the old boy runs pretty good.

 

[Jim in LA]

Well dang. The mystery continues.
Engine kit arrived today with the sleeve puller, 0.04 sleeves, pistons, rings, etc. Thought I'd try out the sleeve puller to see how tough it was going to be to remove the sleeves.

Sleeve puller dropped right through the cylinder.

The engine DOES NOT HAVE SLEEVES IN IT.

So, someone pulled the sleeves out in a prior rebuild, either just jammed in some pistons with rings they thought worked, I guess.

I dropped in--literally--the 0.04 sleeves that I thought that this engine would use, and they are loose in the bore.

So, did they bore the block to fit whatever rando piston they decided would work, or just not use the 0.09 sleeves that might've been used originally? I'll measure the bore tomorrow. Perhaps the 0.09 sleeves will fit; I'll need to return the 0.04's I just received.

SN is “star” 8N21515 “star”.

Thoughts?

I mistakenly ordered .040 sleeves for my ‘ 49 and they practically fell through the bore. Reordered .090 and they fit. I had to get machine shop to install them.

 

[soaked]

Hi tsherry,
Did P0 cut counterbores for the .090 sleeves flange, or were only the cylinders bored for the 0.100 oversize pistons?

The 0.90 used sleeves i miced have a 3.408 flange diameter. F0-4 manual gives 0.003 - 0.006 side clearence on the sleeve shoulder. So block counterbore needs to be 3.411 - 3.414 for 0.90 sleeve to fit.

Sure hope yours are correct

 

[tsherry]

Turns out they were bored for a larger piston and the counterbore was for the 0.04, and they were NOT bored for the 0.09's. I returned the 0.04 sleeves for the 0.09's and dropped the block off at the machine shop yesterday for boring and sleeve installation. Should have the block back in the next week or so. Valves are all cleaned up; seats looked pretty good--machinist said they'd lap in just fine without any further machine dressing. Next up will be onto the seized up governor and oil pump, when it starts to rain that is.

Couple weeks back I bought an EZ-Dumper dump bed insert for my '67 F250, and I need to get that cleaned up, do a little welding on it, and final-mount it into the bed.

Never ending projects around here. First off today though I'll fire up my original 8N and cultivate the garden.

 

[soaked]

Good to know. Thanks. More shop time today to see what I have out there.

Edit: The parent bores for the blocks match the spec of the 0.09 sleeves; I'll send back the 0.04 set next week and wait for the right set to arrive.

Of course you know the parent bore must be 0.001 - 0.002 smaller than the sleeve to provide the required interference fit.
There are sleeve OD demensions listed here on YT

 

[tsherry]

Block is back, sleeves installed and that part of the project's happy; about $400 for some time in the hot tank, boring, sleeve installation, cross hatch the cylinders and decking the block. Cleaning the crank and main bearings and rods this week, and should have a good weekend in the shop getting the crank, pistons, cam installed. Have some work to do to a few valve seats; valves look great though. Oil pump and governor were seized up; heated them both up in front of a kerosene heater and they both freed up. Oil pump is cleaned up and ready to go back in; after the main engine components are back together I'll tear into the governor. My shop looks like a Ford bomb went off...

 

[Ultradog MN]

My shop looks like a Ford bomb went off...

Lol.
I like it and will use it if you don't mind.
Similar situation here.
Appalling mess.
Half a bag of floor dry thats already saturated with oil. Parts and pieces everywhere. Can't find a 5/8 combination wrench and I know there are 3 of them in here.
Have to do a double split on my mowing tractor this year.
You drain the oil in the and rear end then split it off the tranny and a couple more quarts go onto the floor.
Clothes washer getting a lot of use.
Turn down a barbeque at a friend's cause it would take an hour to bathe and get your finger nails clean and you'll be right back at it in the morning anyway.
Ford bombs destroy everything in their radius - socially, hygienically and aesthically.

 

[Lynn Patrick]

Then add the 4 pieces of lawn care equipment that didn't sell on the church garage sale so they are for sale in the tractor parking area.....

 

[Non-farmer]

Can't find a 5/8 combination wrench and I know there are 3 of them in here.

I hate AWOL wrenches. But I've been missing my anvil pruners, one of my most used tools, for a couple of weeks now. I just found them this afternoon. Life is good

 

[tsherry]

So, here we are in late July; today the engine turned over with the original starter motor. The assembly process has taken most of the spring with Life Getting In The Way, but once assembled, the engine was too tight to turn by hand or by (probably weak) starter. Per advice of Ancient Neighbors who have had 8N's like this one be a bit too tight; we strapped the front axle to my F-150 and dear wife was the pilot of that vehicle; I was the glider pilot on the 8N. Started off in 2nd gear once the F-150 was up to a slow speed; rears dug in before the engine started to turn and we tore up the dried pasture with numerous attempts. Then 3rd with good progress to kick the engine loose, then 4th, where it finally broke free. Note that all of the bearings were within spec per plasticgage, no other interference that I could find. Stock sleeves, pistons and rings back to original; bearings 0.020 throughout. Cleaned up oil pump, governor, rebuilt carb, transplant generator from my other '47. Good spark, unsure on oil pressure as of yet; the gauge might be hosed like everything else on this thing. I'll run some fuel into it later this week and try for a hot start. This $200 tractor is now tipping the scale at about $1200....and I'm not done yet. But she's been a fun project and that is entirely the point.

 

[Ultradog MN]

Run it.
If you did something wrong it will let you know.
And it's taken me 3 edits to say this without a sharp tongue but please put an oil gage on it before you try again.

 

[tsherry]

Oil gauge went on tonight. There was oil in the line, so there was at least enough pressure from rotating the engine to fill the lines to the gauge. The original gauge has a solid sludge of congealed oil in it, so there's no way that it was going to read anything.

 

[tsherry]

So, an update--Lazarus is alive and (very) happy. In previous posts, I mentioned oil pressure; the original gauge was tested with air pressure and worked, but would not register oil--it was full of crud. Replaced it and the ammeter and resistor. Idiot me used 12V sized cables for the battery; once I fabbed up some proper gauge cables the starter motor cranked over just fine.

I was able to get it to fire on starting fluid, but no fuel through the carb. I rebuilt the original carb but after soaking for a month and some time in the ultrasonic cleaner, still no joy. Bought an Amazon Chinese carb, bolted it on, fueled it up and it started and idled perfectly from the start. No issues throughout the break in period, head retorqued per the manual Engine smoked badly until the rings seated, and I've gone through a full break in and she's settled right in. Had a minor coolant leak from one of the manifold bolts, but that settled right down with a re-torque. Transmission and Hydraulics are perfect. Steering is also perfect, zero slop or wobble which is an entirely new experience for me on an early 8N. I haven't checked the oil in the steering box yet. I pulled the rear fenders off, leaving the mounting brackets so I can straighten them out--I think a barn may have come down on the rear end of this and mashed the fenders down onto the tires. They're a mess but I'll iron them out enough. Exhaust downpipe is leaking a bit; I'll probably just replace the muffler/pipe and the clamp.

Any recommendations on oil for the steering box?

Thanks, all--

 

[Jim in LA]

So, an update--Lazarus is alive and (very) happy. In previous posts, I mentioned oil pressure; the original gauge was tested with air pressure and worked, but would not register oil--it was full of crud. Replaced it and the ammeter and resistor. Idiot me used 12V sized cables for the battery; once I fabbed up some proper gauge cables the starter motor cranked over just fine.

I was able to get it to fire on starting fluid, but no fuel through the carb. I rebuilt the original carb but after soaking for a month and some time in the ultrasonic cleaner, still no joy. Bought an Amazon Chinese carb, bolted it on, fueled it up and it started and idled perfectly from the start. No issues throughout the break in period, head retorqued per the manual Engine smoked badly until the rings seated, and I've gone through a full break in and she's settled right in. Had a minor coolant leak from one of the manifold bolts, but that settled right down with a re-torque. Transmission and Hydraulics are perfect. Steering is also perfect, zero slop or wobble which is an entirely new experience for me on an early 8N. I haven't checked the oil in the steering box yet. I pulled the rear fenders off, leaving the mounting brackets so I can straighten them out--I think a barn may have come down on the rear end of this and mashed the fenders down onto the tires. They're a mess but I'll iron them out enough. Exhaust downpipe is leaking a bit; I'll probably just replace the muffler/pipe and the clamp.

Any recommendations on oil for the steering box?

Thanks, all--

Glad to hear everything worked out. I paid $800 for my ‘51 and it really was a $300 tractor as wore out as it turned out to be. Replaced everything from the radiator to the dash,clutch included, except crank and cam. At 13 hours oil pressure started decreasing from 50 down to 20 after 30 minutes under load with idle of 5-10 psi. Added Lucas as a stop gap. So far, so good. I was skeptical of the crank but the machine shop guy felt it should be OK. We ran our ‘49 for years with STP and it never let us down. When I rebuilt the ‘49 engine, the crank and bearings did not show scoring or excessive wear. Oil pump had slop in it and I had it rebuilt as well as the one in the ‘51. With runaway inflation, I hate put anymore into it. It’s amazing how an 8N can be worn out and still run well.