MIG welding frustration

[Welding man]

What's "more heat?" More voltage? Less voltage? More wire? Less wire? I've heard welding "experts" say all four at different times.

As I said before though, ANY DEVIATION from the pre-programmed settings make things noticeably worse.

The welder hasn't had enough wire through it to get worn. I've mostly used it as a stick welder, which it excels at.

I have been in the welding business for close to 50 years. I have had several MIG machines and have 3 now, but I would never own a machine that I couldn't set the voltage and wire speed with separate controls. The pre- programmed stuff just doesn't cut it for me. I run a lot hotter machine on stick and MIG than most welders and I doubt that is possible on a preset machine.

 

[Welding man]

I don't see anything out of the ordinary there. Mig is not gonna lay down flat on thick plate.

A mig is intended for finer work.... the welds you have shown would blow clean through if you were trying to butt weld exhaust pipes together..... even a lap joint you'd still be dropping the voltage.

Take your test piece, cut it in two parallel with the welds, clamp them to the bench 3/16" apart, then weld it back together..... with those current settings.... You'll see that bead lay nearly flat.

I politely disagree. The right voltage, wire speed and technique you can make the bead look any way you want it to look. Practice, practice and more practice. I will be welding 3/4 in plate with MIG today.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

I politely disagree. The right voltage, wire speed and technique you can make the bead look any way you want it to look. Practice, practice and more practice. I will be welding 3/4 in plate with MIG today.

You left out material preparation. To make that machine hot enough to lay that weld flat on solid plate is pointless. Not knowing what he wants to weld, he may want to weld that plate to something thinner, or practically non-existent, like a Ford truck frame, what good will all that excessive heat do but make a mess of the job?

Are you going to make any bevels or gaps on your 3/4" plate today?

 

[DanielW]

Little more to a lot more voltage and less gas. you have pools of gas on the welds. cooling too fast. Hold the stinger at an angle more. I also find pushing away works as well

While I'm no expert, I'd tend to agree. I've been teaching my wife the basics of welding, and it's reminding me how much I take for granted when setting my machine that I now do automatically. I'd suggest cranking up the voltage fairly significantly, keeping the wire speed about where it is (may have to go a smidge higher as you crank up voltage, but shouldn't be much), and turning down the gas a little.

But before all that I'd agree with WH: Make sure your polarity is set right. It might have been set for flux-core from the factory, in which case you'll need to reverse it. I bought a 260 amp Century MIG a couple of years ago (Century is made by Lincoln) and the polarity was set for flux-core when it came out of the box.

 

[Loosehandle]

I politely disagree. The right voltage, wire speed and technique you can make the bead look any way you want it to look. Practice, practice and more practice. I will be welding 3/4 in plate with MIG today.

I can run .045 wire with my old Miller 250 and it really makes a tiger out of it. Original poster just doesn't have enough power for some reason.

 

[504]

It’s been said here before but make sure your polarity is set right. Some Lincolns come from the factory wired for Fulx core wire, and you have to change the leads inside of the welder to make them work with gas,

 

[MarkB_MI]

Yeah, I've tried increasing wire speed, but even 1 inch per minute faster than the factory program and I don't get the desired "sizzle." It just pops and spatters. Back to factory program, and it sizzles but lays worms. 1 inch per minute less, and it's back to popping and spattering.

I've run the wire speed 5, 10, 20 higher than the factory program, and it just gets worse and worse.

If you raise the wire speed and the voltage, don't they just cancel each other out? You may as well choose the next thicker program, which I've also tried. It just lays a bigger worm.

If you raise the wire speed and the voltage, don't they just cancel each other out?

Not really. The wire speed determines the current, and the voltage needs to be appropriate for the wire speed. They're complementary.

I think you may be a bit unrealistic about the capabilities of your welder. That's a really nice welder, to be sure, but it's not a commercial unit and it's pretty much limited to short-circuit transfer.

MIG transfer modes

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Not really. The wire speed determines the current, and the voltage needs to be appropriate for the wire speed. They're complementary.

I think you may be a bit unrealistic about the capabilities of your welder. That's a really nice welder, to be sure, but it's not a commercial unit and it's pretty much limited to short-circuit transfer.

MIG transfer modes

I vaguely know what you're talking about, but all I'm trying to do is run a simple bead on thinner material. Not trying to push the machine at all or do anything but hot glue some metal together.

Yesterday I built a simple framework out of 3/4" square, .065" wall tubing. Tried the 14ga, 12ga and 10ga programs, easy walk in the park for this welder. It just laid worms in the corners, that'll be there forever because I can't get at them with the grinder without making a bigger mess.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

I have been in the welding business for close to 50 years. I have had several MIG machines and have 3 now, but I would never own a machine that I couldn't set the voltage and wire speed with separate controls. The pre- programmed stuff just doesn't cut it for me. I run a lot hotter machine on stick and MIG than most welders and I doubt that is possible on a preset machine.

Well, I can set the voltage and wire speed manually, so your harumph was wasted here... The programs are supposed to give you a good general setting, a starting point.

I've tried adjusting both voltage and wire speed manually many many times. Any deviation from the program makes things WORSE.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

It’s been said here before but make sure your polarity is set right. Some Lincolns come from the factory wired for Fulx core wire, and you have to change the leads inside of the welder to make them work with gas,

This welder has external connections for the leads. When you switch between modes, the computer screen shows an animation of what to plug in where. It's pretty idiot proof, and it tells you to install the loopback lead for the MIG gun in the + socket.

I have the lead that loops back into the welder for the MIG gun in the + socket, and the ground in the -.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

I can run .045 wire with my old Miller 250 and it really makes a tiger out of it. Original poster just doesn't have enough power for some reason.

I've tried more power. Small adjustments make things worse. Large adjustments just make bigger worms.

I've watched many hours of how to weld instructional videos from various experts. I've watched many hours of how to diagnose welding problems videos from various experts. I've tried everything they suggest. The welder either makes worms or it spatters and sputters all over the place.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

I vaguely know what you're talking about, but all I'm trying to do is run a simple bead on thinner material. Not trying to push the machine at all or do anything but hot glue some metal together.

Yesterday I built a simple framework out of 3/4" square, .065" wall tubing. Tried the 14ga, 12ga and 10ga programs, easy walk in the park for this welder. It just laid worms in the corners, that'll be there forever because I can't get at them with the grinder without making a bigger mess.

Maybe it would help if you posted a picture of your actual work, although the material list is pretty descriptive, then all doubt is eliminated as to the shape of the weld and a more helpful diagnosis can be made.

If you're making worms, that seems to me like not enough heat, since the opposite extreme is burn-through. Im sure you may have already guessed this.... but why it getting worse no matter the setting, I'm starting to think something is wrong with the machine, since the welds shown on the test piece are certainly quality enough to do what you're doing.

 

[Welding man]

You left out material preparation. To make that machine hot enough to lay that weld flat on solid plate is pointless. Not knowing what he wants to weld, he may want to weld that plate to something thinner, or practically non-existent, like a Ford truck frame, what good will all that excessive heat do but make a mess of the job?

Are you going to make any bevels or gaps on your 3/4" plate today?

I would never weld 3/4 in plate with anything unless it was beveled, if I were welding 2 pieces of 3/4 in plate together. Today I welded a 3/4 in plate in the rear of a truck frame. 3/4 in plate to 5/16in thick frame. welded inside and out. 2 passes on the outside and 3 on the inside. plus a gusset inside. to install a 50 ton pintle hitch. I have installed at least a hundred of these in my career, 3rd one this month and have never had one come back. I burn a 45 lb roll of .035 and some 045. about every month and use nothing but straight CO2. I have 2- 300 amp 100% duty cycle machines and they get used every day.

 

[moresmoke]

If you want to double check your settings, Miller has a phone app the I have found to have pretty decent starting points.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

I don't see anything out of the ordinary there. Mig is not gonna lay down flat on thick plate.

A mig is intended for finer work.... the welds you have shown would blow clean through if you were trying to butt weld exhaust pipes together..... even a lap joint you'd still be dropping the voltage.

Take your test piece, cut it in two parallel with the welds, clamp them to the bench 3/16" apart, then weld it back together..... with those current settings.... You'll see that bead lay nearly flat.

That's the way it looks no matter what I'm welding. Fillets. Beveled butt joints. Doesn't matter. Worms, worms, worms...

Yes, the weld flows out when I make a huge gap. There's no way I can build everything with huge gaps.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

I politely disagree. The right voltage, wire speed and technique you can make the bead look any way you want it to look. Practice, practice and more practice. I will be welding 3/4 in plate with MIG today.

I've run well over 20lbs of wire through this welder. That's a LOT of hours of welding, and I'm not getting any better results now than when I first pulled the trigger. Nothing I try, settings or technique, makes any improvement.

 

[wh]

Yeah, I've tried increasing wire speed, but even 1 inch per minute faster than the factory program and I don't get the desired "sizzle." It just pops and spatters. Back to factory program, and it sizzles but lays worms. 1 inch per minute less, and it's back to popping and spattering.

I've run the wire speed 5, 10, 20 higher than the factory program, and it just gets worse and worse.

If you raise the wire speed and the voltage, don't they just cancel each other out? You may as well choose the next thicker program, which I've also tried. It just lays a bigger worm.

As i already said - try setting for 1/4 inch. Tell the machine you are running 035 wire. i run 035 wire only. Er70s6. Just finished a roll today. Went to change and realized i had used a roll from harbor freight. Replaced with a roll from hobart. Went right back to welding. No difference in welds.

 

[stevieb49829]

This welder has external connections for the leads. When you switch between modes, the computer screen shows an animation of what to plug in where. It's pretty idiot proof, and it tells you to install the loopback lead for the MIG gun in the + socket.

I have the lead that loops back into the welder for the MIG gun in the + socket, and the ground in the -.

I didn't see it in here, but I started scrolling through it early on: Are you running it on 110 or 230V? The ones I see on Gooble will run both ways. If you are trying to run a nice hot bead on 3/16ths, on a 110V welder you better set it high heat, start with the wire speed high, and gradually reduce it if the wire is trying to push the tip away from the work. The 110V Hobart I've had occasion to use I had to set it high, go slow and weave to get a nice bead. That process also tends to blow off the wire and weld it to the tip. Are you using the appropriate sized tip for the wire size? And I agree, your gas flow is too high. Get it down to around 20. You may be blowing heat away from your weld with that high of a flow. And another thing I thought of: Is your roller pressure adequate to run wire out at the set speed or can the wire slip on the drive roller? steve

 

[stevieb49829]

That's the way it looks no matter what I'm welding. Fillets. Beveled butt joints. Doesn't matter. Worms, worms, worms...

Yes, the weld flows out when I make a huge gap. There's no way I can build everything with huge gaps.

"Yes, the weld flows out when I make a huge gap". That one statement tells me your high gas flow is only corrected when it can escape down a wide slot. steve

 

[stevieb49829]

Need me to send you some help?
He only accepts Slim Jim's and 110 racing fuel for payment..

I always envisioned you as being taller, Mule Meat!