Stupid question, (ford 9N)

[Kondoge]

Now this may seem pointless and stupid but I have a reason. My ford 9N with 1947 8N engine is 12 volt converted and has been for a long time (I assume) and one thing I wanted to do was get the starter to spin at 6 volt speeds, the reason for this is the 12 volt speed allegedly causes wear on the 6 volt starter. Is there a way I can slow the starter down to 6 volt speeds or is this just a really stupid idea?

 

[Ultradog MN]

"the 12 volt speed allegedly causes wear on the 6 volt starter. Is there a way I can slow the starter down to 6 volt speeds or is this ...

Yes, it's a dilemma and no, it's not a perfect world.
But to my thinking, the many advantages of 12V easily outweigh the one disadvantage of accelerated starter wear.
You might have to replace the starter every 20 years instead of the original 40 years.
I would be okay with that.

 

[Non-farmer]

Pretty sure my starter has been at 12 volts for 20 years now and still fine. This concern tends to be overstressed by some.

 

[Btzj02]

I have one 12 volt conversion and an original 6 volt. My observation is that the 6 volt starter takes a little longer to start the engine than does the 12 volt conversion. My thought is that in my life time the wear on either will be the same. No worries here. If you have to hold the starter button for extended periods of time grinding away with the starter to start your machine I could see excess heat on the strarter coil taking a toll......

 

[Kondoge]

I guess I’m over stressing the issue and that there’s no issue with it.

 

[Eman85]

Took 40 years on my 8N for the wear to show on the starter, worry about other things instead.

 

[GChief]

What's the theory behind this alleged excess wear?

 

[TheOldHokie]

What's the theory behind this alleged excess wear?

Excessive engagement torque. Speculation abounds, evidence not so much.

TOH

 

[GChief]

Excessive engagement torque. Speculation abounds, evidence not so much.

TOH

As someone who's day job has involved rebuilding electric motors, i was just curious.I figured the fallacy lied somewhere in that.

 

[Ultradog MN]

What's the theory behind this alleged excess wear?

My guess is that 12V slams the bendix into the ring gear faster/harder.
Also, if the tractor won't start and you kept grinding away on it you're putting substantially more heat into the the starter windings and could smoke them more quickly.
But a well tuned N engine will normally start after just a couple of revs so overheating something isn't normally an issue.
A lot of other tractors you can get an aftermarket gear reduction starter for which is already 12V but the Ack Basswards bendix drive Ns used might preclude finding something like that for them.

 

[Kondoge]

again suppose I shouldn't worry because mine starts almost the instant I press the start button. Eman85 what other things or are you referring to my previous posts about issues I've had so far...

 

[Mad Farmer]

How about a resistor in the big starter cable.

 

[Eman85]

again suppose I shouldn't worry because mine starts almost the instant I press the start button. Eman85 what other things or are you referring to my previous posts about issues I've had so far...

No reference to any posts, just life in general. Better things to spend time thinking about.

 

[MeanGene1]

I learned the 6V starter on 12V trick from gramps in the 60's, he had 8 REO's, including 3 deuce n a halfs converted down from 24V, all on 6V starters, started great with no problems. Both my 8N and 850 are on 12V with 67V starters and spin like a 12V system, no problems

 

[Kondoge]

Mad farmer my soldering skills are mediocre at best, (I prefer to use butt connectors) I don't think that there is a resistor big enough to fit on the starter wire. mine is really thick, I thinks it is the original starter cable (I've heard that they are thicker)

 

[Tall T]

I guess I’m over stressing the issue and that there’s no issue with it.

If the starter were to rotate on 12V as many times as it does on 6V the wear would be similar.
In my 6V '51 van, I run only my starter on 12V. I have a 12V battery in the footwell that powers my stereo and my starter. I only have to recharge it every couple of months if that.

Here's the thing . . .
On a 12 volt push button start (no solenoid needed) the engine starts so quickly, that as quick as I can let go of floor starter button the truck's running. So if the starter never even gets to make 2 revolutions, how could it wear out quicker than with more revolutions on 6V. My bendix's last forever too because they aren't dependent on a solenoid to disengage them from the ring gear.

I thought about the starter wear factor at first too but considering I have about 5 good spare OE starters I wasn't worried about it.

If I happen to drain the 12V and I'm away from home, It only takes a few minutes to hook the starter to the 6V as that cable is still there, connected to the 6V pos battery pole with the unattached starter end of the cable protected by a piece of heater hose I stick it in.

T

 

[Mad Farmer]

Mad farmer my soldering skills are mediocre at best, (I prefer to use butt connectors) I don't think that there is a resistor big enough to fit on the starter wire. mine is really thick, I thinks it is the original starter cable (I've heard that they are thicker)

Thinner cable.

Why do you think 6V systems have thick battery cables?

 

[Kondoge]

dunno just what I was told, or did they have it backwards and 12 volt had thicker cable.

 

[Btzj02]

Energy transfer = Voltage x Amperage. A 6 volt system would require twice the Amperage for the same Energy transfer of a 12 volt system. Conductor size is Amperage rated and wire Insulation is Voltage rated.

 

[Jim L WA]

Just came on board with this subject. For my two cents, if you installed a 12 volt starter problem solved.
I do think that the problem is the life expectancy of the starter drive.