Case 580C Backhoe Starting Issue

[gschroeder]

I have a 1980 Case 580C backhoe with a starting issue. When I turn on the key, and push the start button, I only get a click. However, if I turn the key on, and manually jump a wire from the positive terminal on the starter, to the solenoid, the starter cranks the engine over as it should. Any suggestions on what the problem is here? I did replace the starter, but that did not solve the problem. Also confirmed both batteries are OK as they crank the engine over just fine when I manually jump a wire from the positive side on the starter, to the solenoid. I also removed the starter push button on the dash that cranks the engine, manually jumped the 2 wires on back of it, but still just get a click. Thank you in advance for your advice. Thank you

 

[Jim.ME]

Welcome to the forums.

If you only got a click when you jumped between the terminals of the starter button, it could be a bad connect not passing enough current to engage the starter solenoid. That could be a bad connection, bad wire, bad neutral switch. Best to get out your voltmeter and start checking the power to the start button than then to each connection between it and the solenoid.

 

[gschroeder]

Jim.ME, thank you for your reply. I will check all the terminals and wires. Where is the neutral switch on a 1980 Case 580C (power shuttle trans)? Thank you

 

[mEl]

That is a common problem, you need to add an intermediate solenoid to activate the main started solenoid, you can pick up a Bosch relay and socket at NAPA, the wiring is not heavy enough to kick in the starter solenoid in the gear reduction starters, I have installed dozens over my work career both on hoes and 1840-45Cs. We can help you get it wired, you can just zip strip it fast to the wiring at the starter.

 

[Jim.ME]

Jim.ME, thank you for your reply. I will check all the terminals and wires. Where is the neutral switch on a 1980 Case 580C (power shuttle trans)? Thank you

I don't know and would have to look for it. Perhaps mEI can tell you, so you can check it by bypassing it far a test.. I agree with him that adding an intermediate solenoid or relay can solve such a problem. It is done on many machines. JD actually put a kit out to do that for some tractors.

 

[gschroeder]

I did a volt meter test at the start push button on the dash, and at the solenoid, and here is what I found out:
Got 12 volts on one side of the start push button (once the key is turned on)
Got 10 volts on other side of the start push button when button is pushed
Got 7 volts at the solenoid when start button is pushed

I also bypassed the start push button by just manually jumping the 2 wires together, but still only got 7 volts at the solenoid. So I believe I verified the problem is not getting enough volts at solenoid. I will try the 2 items below next:

1.) Neutral switch. Where exactly is it located on 580C with power shuttle trans? I can't find it. I will manually jump these 2 wires together to verify it is good, or bad?

2.) Wire from start push button to neutral switch to solenoid. Can I run a temporary wire from start push button directly to solenoid to verify my wires are OK.

I apprecaite everyone's help with this. I feel I'm getting close to solving this issue. Thank you in advance for your advice.

 

[mEl]

The NS switch is on the RH side of the power shuttle opposite the shift linkage side, the fact that you have 7 V at the starter prove it is working, you could probably go to heavier wire to try it out but you will be doing what I have done. many times over, these machines were my life for 50 Years + a couple, the Bosch solenoid and harness is your best bet, you have proved that direct jumping the solenoid directly gives it the voltage it needs, what is typical on most is the cold start in the morning it will not work but once the voltage gets up it may work all day. with the relay you will be taking voltage right off the hot big cable and the relay will go to the start tab on the starter. What I am suggesting is far easier than running new wires, the relay coil takes practically nothing to kick it in so the tractor wiring is way good enough for that.

 

[gschroeder]

mEI, thank you for your advice. I will try the Bosch solenoid. May I ask 2 questions about that:

1.) What is the Bosch solenoid part number (or description), and where can I buy one?
2.) How/where do I install the solenoid?

Sorry for my ignorance but I have never done this before. Thanks again for your help. Thank you

 

[used red MN]

mEI, thank you for your advice. I will try the Bosch solenoid. May I ask 2 questions about that:

1.) What is the Bosch solenoid part number (or description), and where can I buy one?
2.) How/where do I install the solenoid?

Sorry for my ignorance but I have never done this before. Thanks again for your help. Thank you

Hello gs.., welcome to YT. Instead of Bosch solenoid a better term that is more generic is “cube relay”. I don’t have the time to lay it all out for you tonight. Web search “how to wire a cube relay to energize starter solenoid” this will get you a start and here is a video that explains it for use on a vehicle. Here is a link to a video, I did not watch it but the part I skimmed through looked pretty good. Video on cube relay And don’t worry that it calls out pin 87 there are not 87 terminals on it only 4 or 5. I’m not sure why they label them with high numbers like that, it is just the nomenclature they have used forever. If this doesn’t get you there I know a member that is pretty good at whipping up a quick diagram. If it comes to that maybe he’ll help you out. (@Jim.ME ? wink)

 

[Jim.ME]

Here you go. I get these relays (complete with mount and prewired plug-in connector) from eBay, they are available many places and I have had good luck with them. You can find them in multiples of one or two as well.

 

[mEl]

Thanks guys for hopping in and clarifying the cube relay deal, a much better descriptive term, the wiring diagram of the socket wiring should clear it right up for him. I know this probably does not apply here but battery box ground cables are an issue on some Case Hoes so if I were him, Id probably clean the cable and box where the cable fastens.

 

[Jim.ME]

Thanks guys for hopping in and clarifying the cube relay deal, a much better descriptive term, the wiring diagram of the socket wiring should clear it right up for him. I know this probably does not apply here but battery box ground cables are an issue on some Case Hoes so if I were him, Id probably clean the cable and box where the cable fastens.

Very good point. We often forget the first things to check and make right are both ends of all battery cables.