12V conversion - charging lamp

[JMOR]

Can I tell by opening it up and looking at the regulator? Andy

Hard to be certain, as there are many different part number & perhaps circuits. In this one, there is no #2 tab connection inside, but #1 is connected, so probably good chance idiot light would function. I see zero VR drain here.

https://imgur.com/1sOEtZn

However, in this unit, several things are different, most aiming to obtain a lower rpm charging cut-in. As you see, #1, #2 and the BATT stud are all common. Thus, no idiot light here. The 1.8maA drain is about 2X the GM original VR drain, which is so small that with a perfectly good 60A-H battery, it would in theory take 9 years to totally drain it. Of course, it wouldn't have power to start an engine before that amount of time and might very well be dead in 9 years sitting on a shelf connected to nothing!

https://imgur.com/qC7zyvo

 

[wh]

My tractor has a 10si. It sits for months during the winter and every spring it starts up without having to jump if off
I have never experienced a battery drain that amounts to anything because of a 10si.

Had 2 here i bought that had a 1 wire system. Never could find the drain But every time i was going to leave it for a month or so i would pull ground. And everytime i always got a healthy spark when doing it. Something was pulling power. Have never had a problem with the regular set up on alternators and i do not have to over rev for them to start working.

 

[_AndyA_]

@john in la - in this post:

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ford&th=344550

you name the terminals on the 10SI alternator 1F and 2S.

On mine they are 1R and 2F.

For mine does pin 2 go to the BAT connector like on yours or does pin 1?

In this thread:

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ttalk&th=400963

The post by @Bob says

The 10SI or 12SI alternators have dual labeling on the terminals (F1 R2), but the "R" an "F" markings are a carryover from those transitional alternators and do not apply to the internally regulated units.

So maybe I just ignore the fact that mine are labeled the other way around.

OK so this thread asks the same question and the answer is to ignore the letters:

https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/threads/10si-alternator-spade-question.502713/

Why does this alternator stuff have to be so confusing with mixed up letters, dummy regulators, regulators partially wired, everything using the same model number, etc?

Thanks, Andy

 

[JMOR]

ya got me!

 

[wore out]

@john in la - in this post:

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ford&th=344550

you name the terminals on the 10SI alternator 1F and 2S.

On mine they are 1R and 2F.

View attachment 120542

For mine does pin 2 go to the BAT connector like on yours or does pin 1?

In this thread:

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ttalk&th=400963

The post by @Bob says



So maybe I just ignore the fact that mine are labeled the other way around.

OK so this thread asks the same question and the answer is to ignore the letters:

https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/threads/10si-alternator-spade-question.502713/

Why does this alternator stuff have to be so confusing with mixed up letters, dummy regulators, regulators partially wired, everything using the same model number, etc?

Thanks, AndyB

Pretty sure "Bob" accidently transposed the characters in that old post, but NO MATTER, for what you are doing the "R" and "F" characters have NO meaning or bearing on what you are trying to do. IGNORE them, UNSEE them, put them out of your mind.

What they actually pertain to is this... when production of the externally regulated 10DN alternators ended GM then made a limited number of alternators using the same "cases" as the new 10SI's but without an internal regulator. They used a dummy VR with the individual terminals rotated 90 degrees so the old-style plugs that fit the 10DN's would match up, along with the 10 DN style external VR. Also, the R & F markings came forward, as well.

"R" (for some reason) is a connection to one of the three stator leads.

"F" is connected to the brush that feeds power to the rotating field.

TOTALLY different than the OEM 19SI's, where #1 is "switched excite" and #2 is "voltage sense".

 

[used red MN]

I am not answering your question but I would ask why do you need one? Alternators are so much more reliable than generator systems to the point where you really don’t need one. If you need assurance it is charging such as going on a tractor ride start it up and hold something metal against the back bearing if it is magnetically attracted you are good. Or does this tractor have a hood you open to add gas? If so place a volt meter under there so you can read it if you suspect a problem, see link for mount. Gauge mount If you have the charge light in the dash and can’t stand that it is not functioning turn it into an oil light.
Otherwise, wore out’s answer of buying a 3 wire type so you have the gauge option is the best.

 

[john in la]

@john in la - in this post:

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ford&th=344550

you name the terminals on the 10SI alternator 1F and 2S.

On mine they are 1R and 2F.

View attachment 120542

For mine does pin 2 go to the BAT connector like on yours or does pin 1?

In this thread:

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ttalk&th=400963

The post by @Bob says



So maybe I just ignore the fact that mine are labeled the other way around.

OK so this thread asks the same question and the answer is to ignore the letters:

https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/threads/10si-alternator-spade-question.502713/

Why does this alternator stuff have to be so confusing with mixed up letters, dummy regulators, regulators partially wired, everything using the same model number, etc?

Thanks, Andy

Dang that post of mine is over 20 years old. Surprised you was able to find it in the archives. Actually didn’t realize it was that old.
Like said before disregard the letters.
#2 white wire gets hooked to the battery post on back of alternator.
#1 red wire gets hooked to idiot light.

 

[_AndyA_]

I took all of the advice and bits and pieces I could find and made a wiring diagram, putting it all together. Then I did another search and found @john in la had already drawn the exact same diagram 12 years ago:

This is exactly what I need for my 861.

Now I can rip out the 63 years of botch jobs by previous owners and start again.

Andy

 

[_AndyA_]

I am not answering your question but I would ask why do you need one? Alternators are so much more reliable than generator systems to the point where you really don’t need one.

Just to keep the stock dash operation. Andy

 

[john in la]

 

[Eman85]

I have no idea what tractor you're working on. That alternator was made most likely in China, any markings mean nothing. You can take your 1 wire alternator and buy a voltage regulator, open yours up and put a standard 3 wire regulator in and wire up your light. From memory the GM part # was 1116387 or just ask for a regulator for a 70's or early 80's GM pickup.

 

[_AndyA_]

Tractor is running and I am almost done. The final step is sourcing a new bulb for the implement work light. This is a ~4.5" sealed beam unit with "Ford" and "Tract-o-lite" on the glass. It's pretty cool but is there a 12V drop in replacement or do I have to add a voltage divider and keep it? It needs to have the pronounced lip for the retaining clips.

Thanks, Andy

 

[_AndyA_]

I bought the kit from a prominent company name begins with S. I contacted them about this and they said:

The 2 terminals on the side are not to be connected to anything. There should be a protective cap that’s installed on those 2 terminals. I do understand that you would like to keep the light but that is meant to be used with a generator and an external regulator. ...using that charge light with this alternator is not possible, you would have had to keep the original generator system to work with the charge light. As far as we know there is no company that offers an alternator kit to work with that light.

I set the wiring up to use the two terminals but left them unconnected and tested everything. Then I gave the terminals a try and it appears to work. Here is a video.

So they don't seem to know or understand their own product.

Andy

 

[john in la]

So they don't seem to know or understand their own product.

That is very common.
GM built the Delco 10si alternator specifically to work with an idiot light just so they did not have to put a gauge in the dash.
Others that have theirs set up in the one wire configuration are going to be jealous how fast yours starts charging at idle.

If you want a bulb that says Ford you will have to keep yours.
If any old sealed beam flood light will work take your light to any parts store and tell them you want a 12v bulb to fit.
This one from Napa has Ford 801 tractor listed in the fitment guide.

 

[Btzj02]

I have had pretty good luck searching the net for a 4.5" light. If you do find the diameter is just a little small use some foam weather stripping with adhesive on one side. You can stick the weather strip to the outside edge of the lite and when installed you can not see the foam and it holds the lite tightly.

 

[_AndyA_]

Thanks for info on the bulb!

I gave the seller feedback on how they can improve their kit to work with the 801 and this is what they told me:

I do have to let you know because of the modifications that have been made to work with the charge light, if it affects the way the alternator runs at all since you are hooking it up to the external regulator (which it does not call for to use) those parts are no longer under warranty.

Their mention of an external regulator and modifications show they have no clue what I am describing, so it's just a waste of time. They are not interested.

I tried to explain that I haven't modified the alternator but they are insisting I have lost my warranty. So much for their claim of "100% satisfaction" LOL

Andy