12V conversion TO 30

[SRM]

I'm restoring a TO 30 is there any advantages to converting it to a 12V from a 6V? If so can I use an 12V electronic ignition in the old distributer and replace the coil to a 12V to make the conversion complete?

 

[phil(va)]

Yes, you can use a 12 volt electronic ignition in the existing distributor. You also can use a 6 volt positive ground electronic ignition if you want to keep it 6 volts (Petronix sells both versions.) If you do convert, you can get the 12 volt coil from NAPA, about $20. The biggest advantage is 12 volts turns the starter faster, but if your 6 volt system is in good shape it isn't necessary. A 12 volt system often masks some of the issues that can occur with the 6 volt system, such as poor connections. My two cents is if you are farming with your tractor or using it in critical situations, 12 volts is probably a good investment.

 

[Jerry/MT]

To add to what phil said, the 6v ignition is marginal at best and requires more ignition system maintenance to achive reliable starting and operation then a 12V system independent of whether you have an alternator or generator. That opens the door to a EI sytem which eliminantes the points and condensor from the maintenance list for additional reliability.You can also go to a 12V generator and polarize it to negative ground and then use an electronic ignition(EI) system but you are still stuck with the electro-mechanical (EM )voltage regulator.)
Going to 12V with a Delco 10Si alternator allows you to go to a more reliable solid state charging system(no EM voltage regulator) and requires a negative ground. Going to EI at this point give you maximum reliability with solid state charging control and solid state coil current switching. It would further allow you to go to a hotter coil that would allow for more gap on the plugs and a higher energy spark. I doubt that the latter would provide any cost effective improvment for a low rpm engine like these tractors have.

 

[Don Hooks*]

I agree with the responses below as to the improved reliability, etc. The question I ask is what do you mean by "restore"? If you are returning the tractor to original condition then 6V was original. If you are reconditioning the tractor for regular use (i.e., not shows) then the 12V route is probably best.

 

[John (TR)]

There was a seller on ebay called Tridiode who had 12 volt fields for the generators that the Fergusons use. I bought a set of fields, brushes, a voltage regulator and new coil and changed my 35 to 12 volt while retaining the tractormeter. You can search ebay for sellers, he was there recently

 

[SRM]

Tannks I'll look into it
SRM

 

[SRM]

I am just going to use it for a little work horse around the farm. Maybe later I'll restore another to original condition. This is fun working on something that does not have a computer, make me feel like a kid again.any thoughts about where I can find a wiring diagram with an alternator 12V?

 

[SRM]

When I put the EI and coil (12V) do I still have to keep the resister between the alternator and coil?

 

[SRM]

I will go ahead and convert it to 12V I'll be using it around the farm as a utility tractor.
Thanks

 

[phil(va)]

No. If you go with a 12 coil, you should not need the resistor.

 

[phil(va)]

He has a 30, not the 35 like yours, so I doubt he has a tractormeter.

 

[SRM]

I didn't think so but I thought I would ask just to make sure.
Thanks
SRM

 

[Cody CBD]

I also have a TO 30 which was 6V. Another consideration is winter starting in cold temps. Lead/acid batteries lose cranking power as their core temps drop (70-80 % depending on how cold the weather goes). I found a new 6V battery below 15F would not start my tractor unless I charged it 4-6 hrs before I wanted to use the unit. A 12V battery holds charge much better as the temps drop and will start my tractor without pre-charging.

 

[Bob (Aust)]

Interesting debate.........

Whilst I have very little experience with 6 volt systems, I am inclined to think that a correctly maintained 6 volt system, well tuned engine particularly with electronic ignition, should be equal to any 12 volt system.

I agree a 12 volt system gives you more "ergs and oomph" if there are problems within your electrical system.

My only experience with 6 volt systems was a '36 Ford V8 I had for a short period at one stage in my mis-spent youth. I installed heavy leads, clean connections, good battery and kept the engine tuned and the old girl started every time. A guy in our historical motor club here has a restored early side valve V12 Lincoln Zephyr, 6 volt electrics and it starts first time, every time.

If 6 volts starts 8 cylinders or 12 cylinders, why does one need 12 volts to start a 4 cylinder Fergy?

Just my 2 cents worth.

Bob in Oz
'53 TEA20

 

[Anonymous-0]

Good Morning to all. Don't mean to steal this thread but I have a question about EI. I'll try to get the story as short as possible. TO30, recent change to 12 volt negative ground, everything worked fine. 12 volt system makes cold weather starting a breeze. Wanted to make more user friendly (less maintenance) added EI. Tractor has lost some power. I thought I would see an increase in power. Could the timing be off? Has anyone had experience installing EI? I put new plugs in last night didn't have time to test drive.

 

[Jerry/MT]

EI will not increase power over and above what a well tuned convential breaker point ignition will provide. EI's advantage is the elimination of points and condensor and thus less maintenance. It also has the potential to handle more amps and for high speed engine operation (not on a tractor) where there is an advantage to more spark energy at high rpms. You can them use a hotter coil and open the spark gap for better high end performance. In my opinion it's not worth it on a 2000-2200 rpm engine but there's no law saying you can't spend your money doing it.

 

[Docgj]

Jerry/MT,
I understand that EI will not give me more power. Why did I lose power? I wanted to reduce maintenance. Any thoughts on the power loss would be appreciated.

 

[Jerry/MT]

That's a good question but you'll have to tell me more about your set up for me to help diagnose you problem from Western Montana! What else did you do besides putting on an EI?

Did you correcty hook up your EI per the instructions? Did you have a reisitor in the primary circuit that should not be there? Is your timing correct;6 oBTDC? Is your advance mechanism working? Do you have the requisite, FAT, BLUISH-WHITE SPARK? IF YOU DON'T YOU'LL NEED TO FIND OUT WHY first.

If you have all the ignition stuff correct, then consider fuel delivery and carbretion. Do you have adequate fuel to the carb? Is your carburetor adjusted properly?

I can't answer tose questions for you.

 

[Docgj]

Jerry/MT
I am not asking you to diagnose my problem from western Montana. I was trying to find out if you or anyone out there has ever run across this before or had experience with EI.
The EI was installed per the specifications. The only other work that was done was a conversion to 12 volt. The tractor worked fine after the 12 volt conversion. (That was done at the beginning of the winter) The EI conversion was just done in February. That is why I'm asking the questions about the EI. As the only thing that was done at that time was the EI... I'm trying to determine if the timing good be off with the EI or another problem.

 

[Bob (Aust)]

I have Pertronix Igniter and HV coil ignition in both my 56 year old Ferguson TEA20 and 43 year old XKE Jaguar.

Aside from continual maintenance of Lucas electrics being a thing of the past, I am absolutely delighted with the improvement in the engine performance.

They start far easier, rev quicker and run smoother. EI may not develop more power but it certainly ensures all the horses are alive and well!

[b:e0b9a39e8b]Docgj.[/b:e0b9a39e8b] Unless you have a faulty EI, I suspect you have a problem somewhere else - ignition timing, wrong plugs, fuel, electrical problem etc. A long shot perhaps, but if your EI installation is similar to the Lucas distributor installation, is there a chance one of the mounting screws is jamming your ignition advance and retard?

I suggest you first check you have a strong spark and if so, start a systematic process of diagnosis and fault elimination.

All other factors being equal, electronic ignition can only improve your engine performance.

Bob in Oz
'53 TEA20

 

[Docgj]

Bob,
Thanks for the advice. I'll let you know how I make out.
Docgj

 

[Jerry/MT]

For what it's worth, I've never heard of anyone having problems with engine performance after an EI installation that was properly installed.

I don't know what version you have but if you you installed a Pertronix, the instructions warn you that you can damage the Pertronix unit IF you leave the key on. If the distributor stops in the "primary circuit closed" position than the unit can overheat and fail.

 

[Bob (Aust)]

....... but not as quickly as it will fry if you reverse polarity! :lol:

And no, I have not done that.

 

[Docgj]

Thanks to all. You have pointed out a number of things that could be wrong. Right now I'm leaning toward improper installation as the tractor worked fine before the EI. Could there have been a problem before the installation of the EI? Could the EI magnify an existing problem?
Docgj

 

[SRM]

Talked to a guy that sells them he said it is not common but has had an EI returned that had similar problems. Check for proper installation if good have EI checked out or replace it.

 

[Docgj]

Just an update on the EI conversion... The timing needed to be advance ever so slightly. Tractor back to original power!
Docgj