1955 Farmall 100 Engine Overhaul

[Platinum12]

So if I'm understanding correctly, these O-Rings under the cylinder sleeves are what block the coolant from entering the crankcase? What if I put the head back on, put a hose in the upper opening and ran the water to check for leaks? Block off the lower radiator opening and just fill it up.

 

[Platinum12]

I'm going to wait until warmer weather to do some more stuff, but I have a question. Since there is coolant within the crankcase and block, I want to flush it out. There really is no sludge or crud buildup, so I don't think its necessary to use any chemicals and risk damaging anything else. Fill it with new oil and filter, let it run a bit, then empty. Is that good enough to flush out the remnants that were in it?

Also do you advise using any gasket sealer on anything when putting it back together or just trust the gaskets will do their jobs correctly?

 

[J.Wondergem]

I suggest to take the rod and main caps off and check the bearings. If they're black in color, they need to be replaced. Coolant will ruin the bearings.

 

[Platinum12]

So I finally got around to putting some more work in on the tractor. I cleaned everything with a wire brush on my drill. Made all the contact surfaces nice and clean and smooth. Cleaned underside of the valves and tops of pistons, etc.

Replaced head gasket, rocker cover gasket, and water pump gasket. Also did find sediment stuck in the fuel screen in the carb so I blew it all out.

Tractor fired right up when I put it back together. Doing its usual misfire. I flushed the entire coolant system, once with coolant cleaner and water, and then just water alone, and let it all drain out. Checked the fresh oil I put in, and it was cloudy, so its still leaking somewhere.

Now, this coolant into crankcase leak is basically brand new. But this tractor has had a misfire issue for quite some time. Could the block be cracked somewhere internally that would require a deeper dive to determine, or should there be something visually I can see? I checked everything I could. The tops of the cylinder sleeves virtually looked welded into place on the top of the block, so I didn't see how anything could be leaking there.

Not looking to throw a ton more money at it, but based on its symptoms, is there something else I should be checking or is it most likely a crack in the block?


Also, how exactly does this water pump/fan combo work? I didn't think about it until after re-assembly but I didn't see any kind of impeller or anything that I'd expect to see. How does the coolant circulate then?

 

[J.Wondergem]

Have you done the pressure check with the pan removed to see where the leak is coming from?

 

[Platinum12]

(quoted from post at 07:22:28 05/06/23)
Have you done the pressure check with the pan removed to see where the leak is coming from?

I've not.

So, pressure test the coolant system? Is it possible that the water pump is the issue?

Would a cylinder compression test reveal anything specific as well?

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

It's not the top of the cylinder sleeves where they leak, it's the BOTTOM.

Drain the oil, remove the oil pan, and place a piece of clean cardboard under the tractor. Watch for green drips on the cardboard. Look up in to see where they are coming from.

Again, the sputtering problem is NOT related to the water in the oil. The sputtering is a tuning problem. Carburetor, ignition or timing.

 

[Platinum12]

(quoted from post at 17:43:20 05/06/23) It's not the top of the cylinder sleeves where they leak, it's the BOTTOM.

Drain the oil, remove the oil pan, and place a piece of clean cardboard under the tractor. Watch for green drips on the cardboard. Look up in to see where they are coming from.

Again, the sputtering problem is NOT related to the water in the oil. The sputtering is a tuning problem. Carburetor, ignition or timing.

So to achieve the drips, how much should I fill it up with coolant? I put in about half a gallon of 50/50 mix after I flushed it out twice.

I was assuming that between the sputtering and the leaking, it would have meant a cracked block somewhere.

 

[used red MN]

(quoted from post at 06:35:27 05/07/23)

(quoted from post at 07:22:28 05/06/23)
Have you done the pressure check with the pan removed to see where the leak is coming from?

I am not sure what it proves but I guess I will kick this around a bit. I do not understand how you can say the coolant leaking into
the oil is brand new unless you mean it was new after it had set over the winter before you pulled it apart when you first starter posting. At least 3 posters told you it is likely the sleeve orings were leaking and in my post on Jan. 15 I told you the orings were at the bottom of the sleeves. There I said ..As Ron said most likely your sleeve orings around the bottom of the sleeves started
leaking, very common problem those will need
replace.. On Jan. 16 I posted a links to the online parts diagrams where you could have looked to see where the orings were at. Well you bypassed all that and gambled with a ..shot at the moon.. and now you re back on the launch pad needing to tear it all apart again. The answer to your question about the water pump causing this is NO! A water pump on one of those when it leaks coolant it leaks on the outside of the engine and not into the crankcase. Now looking this up to give you a link to what the pump looks like I see I have to apologize. The engine diagrams were not in the link I gave you for the tractor parts. On some tractors IH placed the engine parts book in a separate book of its own. This was because the same engines were used in multiple machines, so this was a paper saving tactic, well actually a way to need fewer microfiche cards because that is what the parts diagrams were mostly stored on back then. So the pump impeller is behind the plate that you did not remove, see section B-15 in Complete Machine in the link. Section B-08 shows the sleeves.
https://www.mycnhistore.com/us/en/c...ngine/cn/E1D86496-EFBE-E111-9FCE-005056875BD6

 

[Platinum12]

(quoted from post at 20:48:45 05/06/23)

(quoted from post at 06:35:27 05/07/23)

(quoted from post at 07:22:28 05/06/23)
Have you done the pressure check with the pan removed to see where the leak is coming from?

I've not.

So, pressure test the coolant system? Is it possible that the water pump is the issue?

Would a cylinder compression test reveal anything specific as well?

ttps://www.mycnhistore.com/us/en/caseih/na/engines/case/naam12cas154lp-gas/4-cyl-lp-gas-engine/cn/E1D86496-EFBE-E111-9FCE-005056875BD6[/url]

I put fresh oil in. I ran it without the radiator installed for a couple minutes on low. I then filled up the cooling system with water and coolant flush, ran it again, then drained it. Then I filled it up with water again, and drained it. At this point there was roughly 30 minutes of run time on the tractor. When I pulled the dipstick, it was creamy and white, indicating the oil was mixing with the water/coolant.

It's not that I was "bypassing" anyone's guidance, but I simply was trying to fix the problem with simpler fixes by process of elimination (I figured it could have been the head gasket). I'll have to research the location of these O-rings and how to remove/replace them. Not knowing exactly how or where these O-rings coincide with the cooling system, i.e. I'm having trouble visualizing this.




Okay so it looks like the only way to access these O-Rings is by removing the pistons and sleeves and inserting them from above? Is it possible to remove the old ones and insert the new ones from below without having to fully unseat the sleeves?

This post was edited by Platinum12 on 05/07/2023 at 06:59 am.

 

[used red MN]

No, they cannot come out through the oil pan for several reasons mainly physical size and the fact that they have a ledge around the top that prevents them from going down. Also if that was EVEN possible you would have to pull the engine and remove the crank shaft to get them out. In the link is an example part photo, it is a sleeve and piston for a 10 CID smaller IH engine than you have but exactly the same physically. The orings are placed in a groove in the block and the lower part of the sleeve that is a reduced diameter is where the orings seal against. As was suggested multiple times in this post drain and pull the oil pan from the bottom of the engine. Turn the engine so all the piston are the same height. Put some 50/50 AF in the cooling system and look up from underneath to see where it drips from. The proof will be in the pudding.
https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/...XUb3tdf6aUag1lVyoK5TjBjhQDgOpXooaAgjVEALw_wcB

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

(quoted from post at 20:39:41 05/06/23)

(quoted from post at 17:43:20 05/06/23) It's not the top of the cylinder sleeves where they leak, it's the BOTTOM.

Drain the oil, remove the oil pan, and place a piece of clean cardboard under the tractor. Watch for green drips on the cardboard. Look up in to see where they are coming from.

Again, the sputtering problem is NOT related to the water in the oil. The sputtering is a tuning problem. Carburetor, ignition or timing.

So to achieve the drips, how much should I fill it up with coolant? I put in about half a gallon of 50/50 mix after I flushed it out twice.

I was assuming that between the sputtering and the leaking, it would have meant a cracked block somewhere.

Fill it up. You don't need to use coolant. It won't freeze hard again until September at least.

They run fine with a cracked block.

 

[Platinum12]

Welp I was able to detect minor dripping coming off a couple of the bottom of the cylinder sleeves. Only thing left to remove is the cylinder sleeves. I see that there are different sizes of O-Rings that are dependent upon the serial number. There is a 3.3" and a 3.4" option when I go to order them from Steiner tractor parts.

Does the serial number on the silver plaque indicate what size I need or is there another marking I need to be looking for?

 

[Jim Becker]

The serial number break for that change was back in the middle of Super A production. Any 100 with the original engine, or one like the original will use the larger o-ring. You could just measure the OD of the sleeve as Steiner advises.

 

[Platinum12]

Well.

I replaced the O-Rings. Put everything back together. Ran it for the first time today. Still getting water in the oil. Pulled dipstick, water on dipstick. Pulled rocker cover off, water in oil there too.

Not sure what else to do at this point. It runs strong, and it sounds much different, perhaps because of all the carbon buildup and other crud I removed built up around cylinder sleeves?

Is there anywhere else it could possibly be leaking, assuming the block isn't cracked? I feel like a crack would be easier to find. And I originally saw coolant dripping from the bottom of cylinder sleeves, so I thought for sure the O-Rings would have done the trick.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

It's very easy to cut an o-ring while installing pistons so it still could be leaking there...

 

[Platinum12]

You mean the cylinder sleeves? I put a ton of dish soap on them before sliding them down into place. I'm not sure what you mean with the pistons cutting them?

 

[used red MN]

(quoted from post at 20:26:19 07/30/23)

You mean the cylinder sleeves? I put a ton of dish soap on them before sliding them down into place. I'm not sure what you mean with the pistons cutting them?

Yes, he just misspoke or mistyped he meant sleeves. It is highly possible that since you did not come to anyone to assess the condition of the grooves and sealing surfaces of the orings after you cleaned them up that they may have been in to bad of a condition to seal. It is pretty rare that someone goes to all this work and does not spend the $500 or so to go back with new sleeves. New sleeves means that inner half of your sealing areas are brand new. Also when you buff off the OD of the old sleeve to remove the rust buildup you reduce the diameter of the sealing surface so the orings are now not being expanded on their OD to seal in the block grooves with as much pressure as they were intended to have. You have to again pull the oil pan and check to see where the leak is coming from. Turn the engine so all the pistons are even at mid-stroke. This will let you see if the leak is running down from the top from a leak on the head or if it is dripping from the sleeves.
Due to the 2 view system they have on this forum you have gotten some more replies that you have probably not seen on the Classic View side. The sync between the two views gets out of whack when an older threads like yours is replied to there When someone replies over there the first reply transfers here, any replies to their reply do not. To go to Classic View you have to select it in the red outlined box near the top of the page. I have opinions on this system that I keep to myself. The forum hosts are in the process of switching to a new platform that will eliminate this monkey business but it seems to be a long time coming.
Sorry, you had this trouble sometimes working on old tractors has a distinct learning curve.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

(quoted from post at 06:26:19 07/30/23)

You mean the cylinder sleeves? I put a ton of dish soap on them before sliding them down into place. I'm not sure what you mean with the pistons cutting them?

Yes, I meant sleeves. Sorry.