Farmall 140 Cylinder gets tight after one minute of running.

[mmoorefield]

I recently bought a 1972 farmall 140 that had be sitting since about 2005. The engine was stuck when I got it. I managed to get it broke loose everything looked good but the bottom side of the head for the #1 piston so I pulled it and replaced the rings. All four bores looked fine and so did the other three pistons so I didn't pull them. After I got it back together and running I thought I had a fuel issue, the tractor would run about 60 seconds and shut off. After it shut off the starter wouldn't turn the engine over immediately but if you wait another seconds it would turn over and start just fine and repeat the process shutting off again. I thought it may have been out of time when the starter wouldn't tirn it over.tried a different carb and it did the same thing. Finally I could tell something was getting tight. So I started pulling spark plugs out and running it. When I made it to the #3 cylinder it stayed running and runs fine as long as you want. I'm assuming the rings are stuck and swelling with heat. Has anyone had experience with this? I don't really want pull the engine back apart until winter since it's garden season. Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks
Matt

 

[Janicholson]

I recently bought a 1972 farmall 140 that had be sitting since about 2005. The engine was stuck when I got it. I managed to get it broke loose everything looked good but the bottom side of the head for the #1 piston so I pulled it and replaced the rings. All four bores looked fine and so did the other three pistons so I didn't pull them. After I got it back together and running I thought I had a fuel issue, the tractor would run about 60 seconds and shut off. After it shut off the starter wouldn't turn the engine over immediately but if you wait another seconds it would turn over and start just fine and repeat the process shutting off again. I thought it may have been out of time when the starter wouldn't tirn it over.tried a different carb and it did the same thing. Finally I could tell something was getting tight. So I started pulling spark plugs out and running it. When I made it to the #3 cylinder it stayed running and runs fine as long as you want. I'm assuming the rings are stuck and swelling with heat. Has anyone had experience with this? I don't really want pull the engine back apart until winter since it's garden season. Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks
Matt

Your analysis is probably correct. I have seen stuck rings seize engines when warmed up. I erroneously put together a Triumph Bonneville engine with .0035 piston clearance. It would run less than 20 firing strokes and seize. The correct piston clearance was .011. A motorcycle with a broken counterbalance had sheared off the jets to cool the pistons. It would run for 2 minutes then seize. None did any damage to the cylinders or pistons, but they do not get better by running them. I suggest taking it apart again. At least you know how. Jim

 

[Fritz Maurer]

I would like to know if you can turn the engine manually with the hand crank the moment it stops. I think you may have something else going on.
Check the compression of the cylinder in question, if the rings really are stuck, compression will be lower than the rest.
If it is the same as the others, then the rings aren’t stuck.
It might be stopping and not starting for two different reasons. Those engines have been known to jam the starter once in awhile.

 

[mmoorefield]

I can not turn it by hand after it shuts off. A minute or so later I can. I have not checked compression yet buy I will. The tractor will run as long as you want as long as I leave the #3 spark plug wire unplugged and it runs fairly well on 3 cylinders. I went on a 10 min drive with the tractor hoping some heat cycles might loosen something up. After the drive I shut it off plugged the spark plug back up and cranked it up the engine ran fine for about a minute then gets tight and shuts off. I will check the starter also.

 

[Janicholson]

I can not turn it by hand after it shuts off. A minute or so later I can. I have not checked compression yet buy I will. The tractor will run as long as you want as long as I leave the #3 spark plug wire unplugged and it runs fairly well on 3 cylinders. I went on a 10 min drive with the tractor hoping some heat cycles might loosen something up. After the drive I shut it off plugged the spark plug back up and cranked it up the engine ran fine for about a minute then gets tight and shuts off. I will check the starter also.

No real starter issue. I have only one suggestion other than taking it down, and that is putting ATF in the cylinder (about two tablespoons, no more) then running it till warm before putting the plug wire back on. Be sure to ground the loose plug wire to avoid carbon tracking the distributor cap or coil tower. Jim

 

[710ltd2002]

No real starter issue. I have only one suggestion other than taking it down, and that is putting ATF in the cylinder (about two tablespoons, no more) then running it till warm before putting the plug wire back on. Be sure to ground the loose plug wire to avoid carbon tracking the distributor cap or coil tower. Jim

Can you explain what is carbon tracking, as well as how/what should be grounded for this test?new to me….

Dave

 

[Janicholson]

Can you explain what is carbon tracking, as well as how/what should be grounded for this test?new to me….

Dave

A disconnected spark plug wire forces the coil to its maximum voltage to discharge a spark. if that voltage can't get out of the end of the wire, it jumps to any ground it can find. from the cap terminal to a second terminal then to a different plug, or to the attachment clips i=on the cap. It can also jump to the rotor shaft through the rotor body or along its surface. as the spark continues to follow this (wrong) path, it carbonizes the plastic and that carbon becomes a conductive path that ruins the component. sometimes 25 to 30,000 volts can be found. once the track is formed it supplies a track that is often easier than jumping the plug gal, creating a misfire. Jim

 

[used red MN]

Well I am no proponent of snake oil remedies but this may be a case where it could work. I would put a 1/4 cup of ATF in the cylinder and let it set overnight. Next morning pull the plug fold the end of a half paper towel get it stuffed in the plug hole. Then it would be best if you have the hand crank, if not bump the starter. Ignition off crank it a couple turns then check the paper towel, if it got oil soaked add a couple more tablespoons of ATF and let it set 2 or 3 days maybe a week. After that pull the plug crank it over with the starter to clear any residual ATF then proceed as Jim said in reply 5. The snake oil to “up the ante” is Seafoam. Again not a believer but may help in this case, add a teaspoon to the 1/4 cup of ATF. May not hurt to give the ATF treatment to all the cylinders if it going to be setting any way. If this doesn’t work I might even try the old Bob-Ami treatment on that cylinder. I would have to look up what kind of dosage to use for that.
One thing I would like to make sure you know. The oil filtration system on these engines is a “bypass” type. This means the oil being fed to the engine bearings is not filtered, only a small portion of the oil flows through the filter. So anything that gets down in the oil from any type of aggressive cleaning processes can and will get sent into the bearings. In other words after doing something like this change the oil.

 

[mmoorefield]

Thanks guys I will try the ATF. I have been soaking it in seafoam and have already changed to oil once. I checked compression and the other cylinders are around 130psi and the number #3 piston is a 175psi which doesn't really make since.

 

[Janicholson]

Thanks guys I will try the ATF. I have been soaking it in seafoam and have already changed to oil once. I checked compression and the other cylinders are around 130psi and the number #3 piston is a 175psi which doesn't really make since.

If that cylinder is carbon fowled it can have radical pressure. If you had liquid in it when testing that will also take up compression space and raise the number. Best of luck. Jim

 

[Brownie450]

I believe if this tractor was mine, I'd pull the head to find
out what was going on. 175 is extremely high for this
engine. Only thing that comes to mind is a wrong piston
has been put in at some time in the past.
Jim

 

[Janicholson]

If that cylinder is carbon fowled it can have radical pressure. If you had liquid in it when testing that will also take up compression space and raise the number. Best of luck. Jim

A totally carboned up chamber can also put carbon into the ring grooves behind the rings forcing them to not be able to contract as the piston heats. This forces a seizure. Jim

 

[mmoorefield]

I just put the head back on several days ago it has identical fire crater pistons.

 

[Janicholson]

I just put the head back on several days ago it has identical fire crater pistons.

Was there liquid in the cylinder when checking the compression? if so that is why there is high compression. When you tell us there is an issue, tell us what you already did so we don't waste time telling you irrelevant things. Which we have done just now. Jim

 

[rustred]

I recently bought a 1972 farmall 140 that had be sitting since about 2005. The engine was stuck when I got it. I managed to get it broke loose everything looked good but the bottom side of the head for the #1 piston so I pulled it and replaced the rings. All four bores looked fine and so did the other three pistons so I didn't pull them. After I got it back together and running I thought I had a fuel issue, the tractor would run about 60 seconds and shut off. After it shut off the starter wouldn't turn the engine over immediately but if you wait another seconds it would turn over and start just fine and repeat the process shutting off again. I thought it may have been out of time when the starter wouldn't tirn it over.tried a different carb and it did the same thing. Finally I could tell something was getting tight. So I started pulling spark plugs out and running it. When I made it to the #3 cylinder it stayed running and runs fine as long as you want. I'm assuming the rings are stuck and swelling with heat. Has anyone had experience with this? I don't really want pull the engine back apart until winter since it's garden season. Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks
Matt

if the engine was stuck and there is carbon and rust in the piston grooves with tight clearances and stuck rings in the cylinder walls, then when things heat up and there is no place for the expanding rings and piston to go but outward and score the cylinder walls and come to a stop. that is exactly what happens when you run an engine with no coolant, the pistons get tight and the skirts are rubbing the cylinder walls removing meat from the piston till she comes to a grinding halt . that is the whole idea of having a ring end gap,... when the rings are hot there is basically no gap. if too tight they will break also. there is no way of inspecting a piston when its in the bore. you did not say which cylinders' were stuck. i experienced the same thing at work many years ago on a 671 Jimmie. get hot and stop, let it sit and fire it up and go again for a while. then the mechanic came out to the field and replaced the sleeves and pistons in like -40 weather. think that was like a 12 hr. job. was long ago. so its very plausible and when you pull the head off you should see score marks on the cyl. walls. its only a 1/2 hr job to pull that little head . soaking out carbon is not what i would be wasting time on. its a gas engine so no problem to reuse that head gasket. and valve cover gasket . also pictures of the cylinders. and valves is of great help. everybody has their own idea till the facts are seen, which saves typing pages of stuff. it is interesting though.

 

[John Deere D]

I recently bought a 1972 farmall 140 that had be sitting since about 2005. The engine was stuck when I got it. I managed to get it broke loose everything looked good but the bottom side of the head for the #1 piston so I pulled it and replaced the rings. All four bores looked fine and so did the other three pistons so I didn't pull them. After I got it back together and running I thought I had a fuel issue, the tractor would run about 60 seconds and shut off. After it shut off the starter wouldn't turn the engine over immediately but if you wait another seconds it would turn over and start just fine and repeat the process shutting off again. I thought it may have been out of time when the starter wouldn't tirn it over.tried a different carb and it did the same thing. Finally I could tell something was getting tight. So I started pulling spark plugs out and running it. When I made it to the #3 cylinder it stayed running and runs fine as long as you want. I'm assuming the rings are stuck and swelling with heat. Has anyone had experience with this? I don't really want pull the engine back apart until winter since it's garden season. Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks
Matt

.....#1 piston so I pulled it and replaced the rings
What were the end gaps on the new rings you installed?

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

.....#1 piston so I pulled it and replaced the rings
What were the end gaps on the new rings you installed?

How would that explain that it only seizes up when #3 cylinder is firing?

OP pulls the plug out of #3 and it runs all day like that.

It's time to pull the head.

 

[560Dennis]

How did you as you say broke it loose ? What did you do to it To do that ?