1958 MF65 Gas (G176) - Rebuild or not?

[Ding]

I have a 1958 MF65 gas standard with a well worn engine. I am trying to decide whether to rebuild or not. Full restore is not really an option but I could spend the time to rebuild and make it a solid runner again. I used it to hobby farm and run a 12 ft batwing mower. No need for loader, etc. as I have other equipment.

I am an experienced gas engine rebuilder, but mostly cars, trucks, snowmobiles, bikes and anything else that has combustion engines that quit running well. While I would love to have a fully restored tractor (some sentimental value) that is not in the cards for me. I started down that path 15 years ago mostly cleaning, blasting and repainting part by part. Did the whole front end, engine and hood but stopped at the transmission for some reason. A whole lot of time. The Quality Farm and Fleet paint has faded worse that the factory paint I blasted off.

This tractor has had blow-by for some time now and should have been rebuilt some time ago (shame on me). I finally tore into it to see how bad it was.

Here is what I found...

[list:6517bc348a]Valves and guides are toast but rocker assembly and lifters okay ($220 for full valve, guide, spring kit).
Sleeves worn beyond tolerance - 0.080 over ($500)
Pistons worn beyond tolerance - 0.040 under
Crankshaft main and rod journals worn beyond tolerance - 0.020-0.060 under ($600)
Main beds - within tolerance and usable
Big ends - within 0.007 or less - can clean these up
Camshaft okay - needs new bearings
[/list:u:6517bc348a]

Hard to believe this engine had 185 psi on all 4 cylinders. It has the High Altitude pistons stamped Conformatic made by Atlas.
The crank bearings were really worn (copper showing almost everywhere) and explains the crank wear. Pistons, rings etc show no damage just wear.

So I need to decide whether or not to rebuild or look for another machine. I haven't torn in to the back half yet, but expect to need parts, seals throughout...


[list:6517bc348a]Power Steering - needs seals and cast support is cracked quite a bit (maybe could weld up)
Transmission (front seal leaking)
Clutch (looks okay but might as well replace)
Steering box (leaking oil down transmission)
Hydraulic pump is weak (may need a kit or even replacement)
Brakes (new lining likely)
Back end (planetary, shafts, seals, etc.) seems in pretty good shape
PTO needs attention (not sure what, but doesn't shift well and kicks out)[/list:u:6517bc348a]

I think I can rebuild the engine for under $2K (with new aftermarket or reconditioned stock crank). I just don't know what I will run into cost wise in the back half. Another $1K, or more???

So looking for feedback for those who have rebuilt Continental gas engines of this vintage as well as rebuild/repair of the rest of these machines.

What would you do in this situation?

 

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some pictures

 

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[centash]

So, let's say you did the engine and trans
etc. for 4k. You now have a basically new
tractor. What can you buy for 4k that's
anywhere near that good? Fix the old girl
and she will last another 20 plus years!

Ben

 

[Ding]

 

[Ding]

Thanks for the reply - I am leaning that way 8)

 

[ptfarmer]

I'd rebuild it, it's still way cheaper than buying a new tractor that won't last nearly as long as this one did! If it's rebuilt right it will still outlast a brand new tractor in my opinion.

 

[Ding]

Anybody have any good sources to contact for refurbished cranks?
(G176C300 casting number)

 

[derwen1959]

Has the tractor done a huge amount of work or
Insufficient oil changes for that amount of wear in
engine?
The price of parts you quoted seem high compared
with prices in uk
Any idea what could have caused that steering
casting to crack??
The radiator inside and outside should be cleaned
I could think of something else!!

 

[Ding]

[list:956f80911a]I've put maybe 1500 hours on it, but someone else owned it before that. The hour meter showed 34xx when I bought it and is almost 5000 now. I am thinking it was replaced before.
I suspect it may have been overhauled before, but not sure how to trace the parts that are in it back to their origin. (i.e. Atlas Conformatic pistons, etc.)
I have pulled a 3 bottom plow, corn planter, 12 ft cultivator, 20 ft spring harrow, 10 ft disc and an 8 ft heavy back blade (mostly for snow) with it.
I also put the most of my 1500 hours on it with a 12 ft batwing finish mower. This is probably when it was worked the hardest.
I have no idea how it was used before me.
I changed the oil regularly, but again no idea before.
I first noticed a noise in the steering when crossing plow furrows while running the disc after plowing. Not sure when it happened but doing this likely made it worse.
I did have the radiator serviced (tanked, rodded, soldered where needed and painted) by an old school radiator shop when I first got the tractor, but it may need it again.
Parts seem to be quite a bit cheaper for the Perkins Diesel engines - must be more popular[/list:u:956f80911a]

 

[ptfarmer]

Massey Ferguson part number (crankshaft kit) 830756M91.

 

[Bret4207]

The crank is the only thing thing that would give me caution simply because I don't know what that will run you. Otherwise, I'd rebuild it. I have to put sleeves in mine before winter hits. Good tractors.

 

[Ding]

New aftermarket (Reliance I think) crank $700. Refinished (.020/.030 under) $500. While I can get .030 under main bearings most overhaul kits don't come with that option. They run $260 (just mains) separately. So almost better off with aftermarket new crank.

Still trying to decide.

 

[ptfarmer]

try here http://montesequipment.com/

 

[Ding]

Thanks - waiting for a response from them.

 

[Ding]

(quoted from post at 09:52:46 06/09/20)
New aftermarket (Reliance I think) crank $700. Refinished (.020/.030 under) $500. While I can get .030 under main bearings most overhaul kits don't come with that option. They run $260 (just mains) separately. So almost better off with aftermarket new crank..

With a new aftermarket (Reliance I think) crank $700 and a Refinished (.020/.030 under) $500 - which one would you go with? For cars and trucks it would all depend on the expected use and future - generally unless you want to be able regrind again the turned factory one is the best option. With vintage tractors, I don't know. Are the aftermarket ones as good (do they use as good steel) or am I better off getting a reground one?

I was able to find a Reliance kit with 0.030 under mains, so the price difference of buying the main bearings separately has gone away.

On a side note - I have sent a few emails asking for specific contents of the Engine Kits sold on this site, but do not seem to be getting any responses. I realize they might be busy especially with restrictions in place, but all I want to know is which parts come in which kit. I don't want to buy unless I know exactly what I am getting. I have sourced way too many poor quality parts through the years to want to do that yet again. (not all parts are created equal!!!). I have purchased from this site recently and received the parts within a reasonable time, but not larger dollar items or critical engine parts.

How is this site for internal engine parts?
How can I determine the exact contents of a kit? (Manufacturer, etc.)

The source for the engine kit with 0.030 under mains was Agkits.com - is that a good supplier?

 

[Bret4207]

Agkits has a good rep. As far as this site, they are just a middle man for 3rd party outlets IIRC. I got a mess of Continental parts from here this past winter as it was the easiest source for me. They seem good.

 

[derwen1959]

How are things progressing?
Are you going to renew camshaft bearings?

 

[Ding]

I picked up a reground crank and camshaft. I need to measure and then get parts ordered.

Yes, I will be replacing camshaft bearings (I may have to order them by size as they seem hard to find by part number).

 

[Ding]

Got the crankshaft and camshaft measured. It indeed needs 0.020" under rod bearings and 0.030" under main bearings. Cam needs standard bearings.

Curiously enough the engine did not have a center cam bearing when torn down. Just the bearings on each end. Not sure if this was common from factory, due to a previous rebuild, or what???

Any tips before I get parts ordered?

One thing that is confusing for me is that a lot of places that offer engine rebuild kits do not list exactly what is in the kit. I am a bit picky on which parts I put in a given engine and really dislike opening up a kit only to find poor quality parts. I usually toss them on the shelf and order other parts as I really dislike having an engine I built develop issues shortly after rebuild. I wish there was an easy way to get what parts (manufacturer part number) is included in a kit. (i.e. Reliance Part # RP985118, or Part # RP281326, etc.).


I realize it is just a tractor engine that barely turns 2000 rpm, but am still picky.