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1962 Ford Workmaster

Yesterday's Tractor Forums
yes, many of us can / could have, if you had posted the question. might have already had an answer or 3.. :)

post away
 
Well heck yes a lot of use can help you but with what you asked no one here can help. It cost the same amount of money to post one word as it does 100 words and it cost you $0.00 so ask away.
 
Great. Tractor has been running great. Will not start unless I use a jump box and soon as I disconnect jump box neg or pos it shuts off. I bought a new battery and it cranked great and I thought fantastic and then it cut off. I cranked up again and it shut off after a second or two. I connected the jump box back up to the battery with the box turned off and it read 12.8 v. I cranked it up and it fell to 12.6 and then cut off. I am perplexed. I am not a mechanic, I guess you can tell. Thanks
 
This is my first time at using a forum and I am not sure if I am responding correctly to the three replies I have received.
 
soundguy, I just posted the the concerns about my tractor. I am new to this forum business and I may not have repied correctly. Do you see where I responded about tractor not cranking?

thanks
 
Welcome to the forum Dennie - Lots of help here.

As I understand it your 6X1 starts with a jumper battery and runs fine until you disconnect the battery. Then it dies.

OK That's a good starting point.

A couple of questions, if I may.

Is the tractor 6V or a 12V conversion?
Where are you attaching the jumper cables?
Do you have a test light or analog multimeter?

I'm thinking you have a broken wire or bad connection. Or possibly someone mis-wired the tractor.

Post back - your replies are coming through just fine

Kurt
 
Kurt,

Thanks for reply. It was converted from 6-12v many years ago. I used a diehard jump-starter, notanother battery. Positive clamp from jump box to positive battery post on tractor. The negative clamp to the neg post on tractor battery. I do not have atest light or meter. The jump-starter must have a volt meter in it. What so funny I cut it off last time and now it want start.
 
A simple analog meter can go a long way in working on these old systems. A cheap one is just fine. $10 or $15 at Wally World. Also available at Tractor Supply, Auto Zone, Pep Boys etc. Don't get a digital one.

Anyway something you said earlier just registered with me. Since you are jumping this your old battery must be dead. That could be your entire problem. Especially if the alternator is not charging. Your battery may not have enough juice to run the engine. Have you charged your battery?

Kurt
 
I just replaced the old battery and put a brand new bsattery in the tractor. I apologize I meant to post that very important piece of info.
 
Good news - The battery should be fine.

Next question - with the new battery, does the tractor turn over? If no, remove the two battery cables and clean both ends with a wire brush or sand paper, same thing with where they connect and put them back on. The negative cable should bolt onto the frame someplace, the positive to the one of the big terminals on the stater solenoid (the box on top of the starter).

If it does turn over, we'll look at other wires.

Remember the phrase - Clean, Bright, and Tight!

Fun - huh!

Correction - I just remembered you have a 6X1, I was thinking 8N. The solenoid is bolted to the left side of the battery box. Other cable goes to the starter.
 
didn't see it.. but then I'm onthe classic side and you may have posted on the modern side. occasionally posts do not sync up correctly between classic and modern.

got a link to the post?

soundguy
 
Double check that your new battery is not in fact a bad new battery. If it was me I would try it in your car or truck and see if it worked ok. A number of years ago I picked up a Farmall B from a guy but it needed a battery so I got a new one and set in in and the tractor would not start. I try the battery in my truck and low and behold it was a brand new battery that was bad
 
sounds like a problem in the charging circuit if it will run on charger, alt./gen. not putting out. Check for voltage from alt./gen.
 
Kurt, Before I replaced Battery I cleaned the cables that connect to the battery post. They are all tight and making good connection. I even cleaned with sand paper all the wires on top of the selonoid. Remember with the jump-starter connected and turned off the baterry read 12.8. After starting the engine it fell to 12.5-6. I took the same jump-starter and hooked up to my truck and it read 12.8-9 and then I cranked truck and it went to 14.4.
 
Old, My truck has side post on the battery and the tractor has top post. Is there a way to connect the tractor battery to truck. Dennie
 
Dennie, I sure wish you had a good meter. I'm beginning to think you have a problem in your alternator. The voltage on the meter should read about 14 volts with the engine running. If its 12.4, you are not getting a charge to the battery. That, said, the battery should still run the engine if it fully charged.

Have you checked the wires that run from solenoid to the two terminal block (back side of dash), then through key switch, back to the terminal block and then to the coil. Are they all "clean, bright, and tight. Final wire goes from the coil to the distributor.

One by one were eliminating the possible causes, we'll get there.

Kurt
 
T Epps right. If it a Delco alternator it should read about 14.5 volts DC. You can also check across the two battery posts.

Or, as T Epps said, connect the Bat terminal on alternator to one side of the meter and the other side to the chassis should read 14.5 VDC.
 
Sorry Dennie, should have explained better. Check for 14.5 volts on the batt. terminal on the alt. If you have it there continue going back as Kurt-NEPA has said. If you don't have 14.5 volts at the alt. it is bad.
 
Kurt, I thought the tractor should run off the battery too while it was fully charged. I have checked the wires from the distributor to the coil to the ceramic gizmo. I have not checked the wire from the ceramic gizmo to the I don't know where it goes. The wires from the selonoid to the switch seem to be fine. I will buy a meter tomorrow however I do not know how to use.
Dennie
 
T Epp, Before I replaced the battery I tried jumping the tractor with my jump=stater and it would crak every time until I pulled on of the cables off. Neg or Pos it didn't matter which I pulled off the tractor would shut off. As long as the jump starter was connected the tractor would run, however AI was afraid to run over a minute for fear of causing harm
 
T Epp & Kurt, I just went out at 9:15pm to try cranking tractor. It cranked immediately without using the choke. It ran maybe 10-15 seconds and cut off. It cranked second time ran maybe 4-5 seconds and the third time it cranked and ran only a couple of seconds. The tractor would not crank o n the 4th and 5th try.
 

Sounds to me like current not getting into cable from battery post. The terminals could have been loose prior to the battery change resulting in arcing, which can leave carbon inside the battery terminal preventing current flow. just take your pocket knife, provided it has been sharpened on a Japanese water stone, I'm sorry, just came from the tool forum, any way scrape the carbon out put it back on tight I bet it will run.
 
Yes they make what is called charging post for the side post battery so you install them and then you can hook up the truck battery to the tractor. Cost is less then $5 and I have used them many many times when I pick up a cheap side post battery and need one for a tractor
 
It sounds like you have 2 problems, a bad alternator, and as a result of running it with the bad alternator over time, a bad battery. If you fully charge the battery from some external source and it only lasts long enough to try to start it 2 or 3 times, then the battery isn't holding much of a charge. The jumper box is just another battery, and by the sounds of it, the battery in the jumper box is good and the battery in the tractor is not.
 
I will buy a meter tomorrow however I do not know how to use.
Click to expand...

The meters are easy to use. If you can't figure it out, post back and ask - or email me if you want.

BTW, the reason for an analog meter is that these old tractors put out a lot of electrical noise. Drives the digital meters nuts. Especially the cheap ones.

I think the first thing we need to do is figure out if the Alternator is working. I'm thinking that's where the problem is.

Kurt
 
Kurt, I will get back with late this afternoon after I buy a meter. I think it is the alternator also because it is very old probably at least 25 years old. However I still do not understand why it want run off just the battery which once again is brand new. Thanks Dennie
 
You might try taking the alternator off and stopping at an auto parts dealer to have it checked. Most will do it for free.

Is it a Delco alternator? That one is the most common for conversion and the one I use. If yes, they are about $50-60. I get mine from NAPA. If yours is that old and that questionable, it might be worth the investment anyway. Also, I recommend the 3 wire unit over the 1 wire.

We can help with wiring if need be.

Kurt
 

Dennie, if you are willing to post a general location you may find a member who is close enough to help in person.

Rick
 
Kurt, I just went outside and my tractor has a Delco Alt. However it is a two wire. One (the bigger wire) is bolted on a small threaded bolt with a small nut holding it on. The other wire is on the top and to the right near back of Alt. It looks like there is some sort of very tuff putty, I imagine to protect the wire. I phoned NAPA today before I read your poat and they have remanufactored alt dor $45. OK I am definitely going to need some assisitance on this wiring. I think the guy at NAPA said their's was a single wire unit. Appreciate any guidance. D
 
NAPA carries the three wire also - try to get that one. The one wire alternator will not start to charge the battery until the RPM tops about 1800 rpm. In other words when you start the tractor, you have to "goose it" until the charging starts. The three wire will start charging immediately. One wire units work great in cars and truck, not tractors, but many people use them anyway.

If you get the the three wire alt. you will need the plug that goes into the side, Napa should have that also.

For wiring with the three wire you'll also need a diode - Radio Shack has them. No real problem to wire the three wire. just 2 more wires to run.

What is the condition of your wiring? Now might be the time to get a wire harness. One tractor supply house that advertises just 8 N's has a nice hundred series harness just for 12V conversions as well as the plug, and diode in the sensor wire. Worth thinking about.

Good Luck.

Kurt
 
Just thought of something Deenie, Actually two things.

1. Does your existing alternator have an external regulator? The one and three wire alternators have the regulator located internally. Much easier to wire. That would explain the two wires on the alt.

2. You said you had a "ceramic thingy" in the wire from under dash terminal to the coil. That would be a ballast resistor or a 12 to 6V conversion resistor. They can cause some problems such as you have, especially as they get old. NAPA has a 12V coil that does not need that resistor. Part number IC14SB. I think they go for about $15. Worth a thought.

Boy am I good a spending your money.

Kurt
 
Here's a 601/801 12 Volt wiring diagram for a 3 wire that I picked up somewhere along the way. Not sure who did it.

Uses the 12volt coil I recommended. Also, if you have the charging light, you will not need a diode. My 660 does not have the light, so I used a diode.

Enjoy.

601-8013wire1.jpg
 
Kurt, My tractor's alt has two wires. I don't understand your 1st point. I have the tractor over and there is no V Regulator. On the coil is written (Coil 12V External Resistor Required). I am going to try the alt route first. I am going to get one this morning however I am confused about the wiring.
Dennie
 
OK Dennie, not to worry. I'm not familiar with two wire alternators. I know some early alternators have an external regulator. If you get a Delco 10-SI three wire it will be an internal regulator. It should hook up very similar to yours.

On the coil and ceramic block. Lets see if I can explain what's going on. The electrical system is designed to put more power to the plugs during start up. So 12 volts goes to the coil. As the tractor warms up, the voltage is dropped back to about 6 or 8 volts. This greatly extends the life of the points. There are several ways to do this. On these old tractors of ours, usually a ballast resistor was used. It looks like a ceramic block with a a coil of wire on it. The resistor heats up after you start the tractor, that causes the resistance to increase and the voltage drops to the coil. Hope that makes sense. With the tractor running that block can get really hot. Don't touch it.

Newer coils have that system built into them. They are much more reliable. They are marked "no external resistor required". But for now, I would stick with what you have. Its not a bad system, its just that ballast resistors have a life to them. Also, most shade tree mechanics don't understand them. That can lead to all sorts of problems.

Hope that makes sense.
 
On the wiring, don't worry. You'll need some 10 gauge, and 14 or 16 gauge stranded wire and some ring terminals. Do you have a crimping tool. You can usually get a kit with the crimping tool and an assortment of terminals for about $15.

When you put the alternator on, There are only thee wires to run. The big one goes from the big post on the alternator to either the solenoid or the main terminal block. One runs from the plug on the side of the alternator to the post on the alt were the big wire goes. The other wire on the plug goes to your idiot light.

That make sense?
 
Another Picture - This one is from my 660 - Delco 10-SI Three Wire

Delco10-SI3Wireon660.jpg


Yellow wire goes to either the main junction block or the battery side of the starter solenoid. This is the charging wire - puts the juice to the battery to charge it.

The white wire would go to the idiot light. This is the sensing wire. It tells the regulator how to maintain voltage.

The red wire simply goes to the Bat post (Yellow Wire)

To check if it is charging, put the red test lead from your new meter on the yellow wire post (marked Bat) and the black lead to a bare spot on your chassis (or the the Neg terminal on the battery. Set you meter to the 0-50 or 0-100 VDC range. You should be able to read the voltage. If the meter goes the wrong way switch the leads.

BTW, Under the black heat shrink tape on the white wire is the diode I talked about. If you have an idiot light you won't need this.

This helping at all?
 
Just had another thought Dennie, If you pick up the alternator at NAPA - Check the pulleys. Make sure they are the same. If not, you'll have to swap them. Not hard to do on a Delco if you have the right size Allen wrench. My NAPA did it for me.
 
Kurt, Just got back from NAPA with an alt and it looks just like the one I had on the tractor. So I hooked it up just like my old one and it would not crank at all. The picture of the alt you sent me looks just like the one I just bought. Remember I said I had 2 wires. One wire the smaller went to one of the two male plugs. On my old alt the other male plug had no wires hooked to it, just full of silicone to close up the whole. The male plugs have a 1&2 and R&F just like your picture. So why want it crank again I hooked the new alt just like the old. Dennie
 
Kurt, you sure are good with all these pictures and graphs you have sent me, I do not know how you do this. Anyway,I do not have a plug like yours with the two wires (red & white) coming out of. Your yellow wire is like mine and I have another wire like your white going to the 1 or R position. I do not have a plug nor the red wire. Thank you. Dennie
 
Good news - Dennie. You got a Delco 10-SI 3 wire. They are very common for 12V conversions. Lot of info out there. NAPA should have the white plug. Its usually on a rack and called a Delco repair plug. It they don't have one, try another parts house, they are very common and a couple of bucks. If I remember correctly there are two types. Make sure you get the right one. Just put the plug in on the alternator and hook the one wire to the Bat terminal as shown and run the other wire to the idiot light. That will get the Alt charging at low RPM.

Now for the bad news - it won't crank. Do you mean the engine won't turn over or its turns over and won't start? If the battery is dead it won't turn over, charge the battery. If its turning over and not starting we'll look at wiring - that's where the meter comes in. If it turning over and starting with your starter pack. Try running the RPMs up to full for a bit. That may get the Alternator charging and let the tractor run. If that battery is really gone, you may need to charge it first.

We'll have to work on getting that sensor wire hooked up.
 
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