1970 580CK Torque Converter No Pressure

[Robert Bird]

I am a new member today and have searched for help with my problem but have had no luck finding out what I need to know. I have had this backhoe for 38 years. I was using it to spread gravel on another farm and drove it back home. It is down hill the last 1/4 mile until you get to my house. When I coasted into the drive way and shifted to a lower gear it would not move. Has zero pressure on the pressure gauge. I changed the oil and removed the filter. Cranked it up and it will not pump any oil out of the front filter housing. I am assuming I have some type of problem with the transmission hydraulic pump. Anyone have any other thoughts? I hope someone can tell me the best way to remove that pump unless someone has some other thoughts. I can see it being a huge deal because of the fuel tank setting over the torque tube. Any directions would be so helpful. I have the service manual for parts break down. Thank you for taking the time to read this long post and reply.

 

[Case Nutty 1660]

Pump is bolted to the top cover plate on the torque tube,, I find it very odd that the pump would fail at this moment,, yes they can go bad but I have seen few of them fail, like this,, you say you coasted down the hill,, did you have the clutch down to change four speed gears? I have seen more than once a pin fall out/linkage issue on the clutch/spool linkage and then its just like you still have the clutch depressed, zero pressure on the gauge and no psi to the clutch packs,, I never checked to see if this drops hyd filter oil flow, but it sure may,, make sure the clutch spool on the control valve is moving back and forth with clutch pedal movement,, I have heard of the drive gear coming off the pump,, but only once that I remember,, and we sold lots of 580CK and up,, I still use one almost daily on my farm during the summer.

 

[Robert Bird]

I did not have the clutch peddle pushed. Had the transmission in 4th gear and was running wide open. The clutch linkage is hooked up properly to the valve. I worked it several times before I had to get my wife to pull me up the driveway and to the shed. I have since worked it several times.

 

[Robert Bird]

What is the best way to get pump access? I have seen pictures of steering column off and tank removed. I read on another forum about splitting the tractor at transmission and pulling the torque tube out from under the fuel tank. Any suggestions at all would be greatly appreciated.

Is there a place I can check pressure before the clutch valve?

Can I pull the clutch valve off without removing the fuel tank?

 

[Case Nutty 1660]

couple ways to remove the cover,, one is like you said pull tank,steering column,, other is to split the unit at the engine and roll the whole unit back out of the loader frame and do what repairs are needed,, I like doing them the last way as then its easy access to the whole rear axle,transmission, shuttle and torque tube,, others like to fight working on them wit the loader frame in the way,, if you have a backhoe on it this is set off first, then the backhoe mounts have to be removed, then its just a matter of the split at the engine and the whole unit will roll back out of the loader frame, if you have the Case service manual it has the splitting steps, this is also the time o do any brake repair yours may need, I was hoping you had just a linkage issue,,

 

[2290]

Hi Robert,
I have seen the pump shaft break off several times over the years.You can lift the valve body off and top cover and check pump gear and inlet tube with out splitting or removing fuel tank. As an former case dealer like Case Nutty we sold 580 thru 580D models. I have removed that top cover on many of 580ck and 580B models and replaced the pump.It take some patience,but can be done.

Marlin

 

[Case Nutty 1660]

Marlin,, you are 100% correct they can be pulled,, me I like to split,, just easier for me,, and as said I like to go through other areas while there,, I should have made it clear like you it can be done,, I just hated fighting it from under the tank,, his may well not need any other work,, so may be worth saving steps and doing what I call the lean-over -fight method, lol I have done so many through the decades I can have the whole unit split and have the shuttle apart and on the bench in under 2 hours,,, thanks for correcting me as he may well not mind,, I do recommend him to Thoroughly Clean the area he has to work on,, easy to drop dirt/debris in when doing it that way,, of course what ever way he does it the cleaning to me is a must,, I am a very much a perfectionist when I work on things and am set in my own ways that many feel I go over board on, not saying my way is the only way at all just for me it is lol thanks again it may save him work he does not want to do when doing it by splitting. back in the dealership days when I had every part on the shelf for them it was not uncommon to do two and if in a bind I would put three shuttle rebuilds out the door a day, those oil field hands kept our shop hopping as they were Hard on equipment
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[mEl]

If there is no oil delivery to the front filter base the problem is with the pump,there is no control mechanism that would stop oil delivery. On a couple occasions back in the day I have seen broken starter drive teeth that were not removed get picked up and pulled into the pump. I usually would cut a inch off the suction tube and form a piece of screen over my thumb and put it on the suction tube with a SS hose clamp, back when you could get real metal screen. At any rate, you are looking at getting that top cover off by however you choose to do it.

 

[Case Nutty 1660]

Thanks for confirming on the oil flow mEl,, I was pretty sure it did not stop with the clutch spool but never reason to check that out,, the teeth make sense, the one i seen fall off the retaining nut came loose and dropped the gear, of course it took out the pump shaft as well as wallowing the gear bore,, I guess i have been lucky here to see so few pump issues,, I have only seen one convertor failure here also,, that one worked ok still but was filling the system with Aluminum shavings,, I almost never use the "clutch" when I run one,, we even had customers who had us unhook it from the spool as their hands had a habit of using the clutch pedal as a foot rest which would cause low oil to clutch packs and cause premature wear. I try to "file" away all of these issues I have not ran into yet for future diagnosis, a few years back I was helping with a Racine COM issue,, the unit was 2K away from me so no hands on like I like best,, anyway it had no oil to the control spool,, problem was found it had something blocking flow in the oil cooler,,, sorry for the long and multiple posts here
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[Robert Bird]

Thanks everyone for the directions and input. I have already taken the backhoe off. I do not have a concrete floor to work on, so splitting will be a big job. I may start out with the reach in and try method, but my back does not like that method at this point in my life.

Any suggestions on getting a pump, besides from a salvage yard, if I have to have another pump? I really doubt it is a starter gear problem. Like i said originally I have had the backhoe 38 years. I worked on the brakes about 5 year ago and they are perfect at this time.

I may have a great running piece of scrap iron, if it is absolutely too costly.

Anymore input from anyone is appreciated.

Thank you very much to each one who has commented and shared advice and knowledge.

 

[Case Nutty 1660]

I am sure we can locate you a pump,, even if its a good used one, I know you can get the hyd side pump new yet,, I am not sure if its the same as the power shuttle pump or not have to do some looking, I have to wonder if the Case-O-Matic pump is the same also, i can check that also, jc may well have one on the shelf too i will send him a email to make sure he see this post, there are LOTS of them still running today,, Saeli Imp may well have a option also,, the cover part of the job will be easier with two people also,,, you may have long arms than my short ones and you may not see it as a big deal,