2 cycle oil in old 6.2 diesel

[Roy Suomi]

Anyone here using 2 cycle oil in their fuel on older diesel trucks ?? I've been mixing 8 oz. to about 18 gallon top off...Winter time I use Stanadyne treatment plus some 2 cycle..I've heard that injector pumps only last 15-20 thousand miles if running straight "on road" fuel. I use a blue colored oil so it can't be mistaken for "off-road" fuel..

 

[Bob]

"I've heard that injector pumps only last 15-20 thousand miles if running straight "on road" fuel."

Simply put, TOTAL RUBBISH!

 

[MSD]

Ever wonder what the over the road truckers put in there tanks if it is such a problem?

 

[Anonymous-0]

The type of pump that I have heard, that needs the extra lube is the older in-line pumps. A newer rotary pump should have no problem with the newer fuel.

 

[scotc]

It helps lube the VE pumps on the first-gen Cummins. They tend to run quieter and get better fuel mileage. But results vary.

Just don't use transmission fluid or hydraulic/transmission fluid. They have additives that make them more abrasive under pressure.

 

[Bob]

Not to start an argument on the side, but, AFAIK, the older in-line pumps were mostly Bosch and such and TOUGH as nails.

Rotary pumps generally ARE less forgiving of poor fuel quality/lubricity.

This is backed up by the fact that guys running "grease cars", using unrefined cooking grease, have better luck with Mercedes and such with the in-line pumps... rotary pumps are more prone to seizing from moisture/impurities in the grease.

 

[Bob]

To elaborate a bit, I have several of the old beasts around and do NOT add anything to the fuel except occasionally some anti-gell in the bitter winter.

I have NEVER had one of the pumps with any other mechanical problem except failed plastic governeor damper rings which is NOT a fuel lubricity problem.

I also have a 1994 6.5 with the electronic IP (which has essentially the same pumping elements as the older pumps) which has 225,000 miles on it.

It had 50-some thousand on it when I bought it, and the IP had probably been replaced by that time (recall), but I've put almost 175,000 miles on it since without adding any kind of magic skunk pee to the fuel and the 'ol IP is STILL hammering along!

So, not saying fuel lubricity additives are BAD, in my humble experience, I've gotten by quite well WITHOUT them.

 

[greygoat]

If ATF has additives that make them abrasive
under pressure..wouldn't power steering pumps wear out quickly...how about transmissions, how
do they handle that "abrasive" ATF?

 

[RN]

Bob, I"ll start the side argument on pumps (Teasing Alert!). Bosch/Mercedes inline pump designs almost always used engine oil as a lubricant for critical wear parts- the same basic design was used for gasoline fuel injection engines that wouldn"t have had any fuel lubrication. Rotary pumps that depend on fuel to provide some lubrication may have a problem wih the new ultra low sulfur diesel fuels, many of those pumps were designed in the days of the high sulfur/wax fuel and worked good enough with that fuel providing some lube. BUT anyone who remembers the GM car diesels of 30 years back will recall the distributive injecter pumps failing and having some replaced under warrantee- especially in the lower sulfur fuel areas like North Eastern US and California. 2 cycle mix 16/1 is noted to be used in extreme cold weather to start and run some diesels- Cat has a little advisory about doing it, they prefer you have a heated garage but note it will work to start. Roosa-Master rotary like on my IHC 350D were a 1950s design, used offroad higher lube diesel and are advised to use a lube additive if using the new onroad ultra low sulfur diesel- 2 stroke oil is specificly mentioned. As for the ATF "abrasive"?- the high detergent ATF like Dextron can retain some wear particles in suspension, that is what the filter is supposed to remove. The rebuilders have seen some abrasive wear on transmissions- for them it is a indication that the filter was never serviced as required. I had a delivery Ford truck have a transmission problem at 70,000 miles and was being blamed as driver abuse- rebuilder noted wear on main band and asked for service log- oops! Ford says severe service needs 25,000 miles maintenance services and none noted in log, filter looked like the factory original from part number. No more comment about driver abuse- and other 2 little Ford vans got sent for required maintenance service on transmissions.
New diesel fuel in older engines- Anti gel and a splash of 2 stoke won"t hurt in weather coming soon here (Snow! aaaargh!). RN

 

[hd6gtom]

As a former oil salesman that took all the schooling aviable at the time and participated in millions of miles of road testings, I will again tell you do not run ATF in your diesels. It has an abrasive additive in it to help the clutches in the automatics grab and hold. It is not designed to be run in a diesel fuel system and WILL reduce the life of injectors. If you buy a good premiun diesel fuel you will need to add nothing to it for lubrication.

 

[Billy Shafer]

I agree. Wonder who made that up. Must have had some pumps for sale

 

[Brian Jasper co. Ia]

No, nothing abrasive in ATF. If it did have abrasives in it, the valve body would jam up...

 

[JDB]

2 Cyle oil is the best if you are going to add any oil to the fuel tank. Jet fuel is the primary component of 2 cycle oil and is closely related to diesel. I add a quart per 50 gallons to my diesel engine. I don't know if it helps or not but it certainly will not hurt. Let me qualify this by saying that I work for an oil blending company and speak often with the chemist.

 

[scotc]

The key part, is "under high pressure", like in the pump head, injector lines, and injectors. When the clutch packs squeeze together, the additives in it don't make it abrasive, so much as increase the friction, to help the clutches hold better.

The best thing for adding lubricity to fuel, is TCW-3, low-ash, or ash-free, 2-stroke oil.

Fuel additives, like Power Service, FPPF, and Lucas, actually reduce fuel lubricity.

 

[Anonymous-0]

We use a lot of diesel here on the farm. Have only had, I believe, 4 injection pump failures in probably 40+ years. 3 of these failures have been shortly AFTER adding things to the diesel to make pumps last longer! 35 years ago the neighbor lady was pushing Conklin products. Dad bought some stuff from her. One of the products was Fuel-Mate, I believe it was called. Put it in our farming tractors at that time. An 806 and a 1206. Within 2 weeks, the injection pumps went out of both of them. Fast forward to about 4-5 years ago. Schafer salesman said I needed to put an additive in my diesel pickup because of the "new" fuel. Second tank of fuel w/additive annd the injection pump failed. I don't know if these were all coincidence or if the additives contributed to the failures. Of course, the sales people said it didn't. Now the ONLY thing we dump in the diesel fuel is some Power Service or Howes in the winter.

 

[sotxbill]

just love it when a thread goes sideways..

I know a guy to lives next to a guy who works for the guy who's brother invented the internet.

this thread is totally, and hopelessly lost. no facts and all superstition.

 

[Bob]

"Jet fuel is the primary component of 2 cycle oil and is closely related to diesel."


NOT that I in any way doubt the validity of that statement it would sure be GREAT if you could further expound on that fact, or post a link to a site that explains that information in more detail (strickly for the DOUBTERS, you know)!

 

[ohio]

The heat of being trapped in the valley under the intake manifold will kill it before ultra low sulfer fuel. Standyne makes a special treatment for their pumps i believe.

 

[scotc]

I got a cheap quart of SAE 30 at the dollar store, running it at about 150:1, and it seems to be working well.

I started running 2-stroke at 200:1 in February, on blended fuel, and the truck (90 Cummins) immediately started running quieter (a common observation with the first-gens), getting better fuel mileage (also a common observation), and I started seeing smoke when I mashed the skinny pedal, which I hadn't seen since they went to blended fuel last fall.

 

[Brad Gyde]

I'll let you know when "straight on road fuel" kills my Stanadyne pump on my 7.3 International. So far, 25k on a USED pump.. I don't know how many miles were on the pump, but the truck I robbed it off of showed 225k on the odometer.

I'll side with Bob just a touch, as it was my impression too that inline pumps are more tolerant than rotaries. I was told that a CAV rotary pump (such as what would be found on perkins engines) WILL NOT pass water. Was also told it's lock them up. Never tried it to find out, and don't really want to.

The only thing I've ever had hurt a pump is BIO FUEL. It will gum up a pump in short order if it sits too long.. ASK ME HOW I KNOW.

Oh, and I run a 2009 JD 9430 at work. I took it over at around 850 hours..

Now it has about 2800.. All I have ever bought was road fuel (somehow, my employer gets the road tax back, I was told) No fuel related problems yet there either.

Brad

 

[scotc]

It's the old rotary pumps that have the most trouble with the no-sulfur fuel.

In the case of the Bosch VE in the early Dodge Cummins, it also helps with fuel mileage and power.

 

[RN]

Jet Fuel component of 2-stroke oil?? What brand and what percentage? Many of the newer 2 stroke cycle oils are noted for injecterlube systems like Yamaha design that squirts oil into intake area at varying rates- 25:1 to 100:1+- depending on throttle setting and mean less smoke at idle. The Yamalube bottles note a cold flow mix for injectors that has a hydocarbon ingredient name that translates to filtered clean K1 Kerosene as a minor ingredient. The offroad racing manual notes that 10-15% kerosene mixed with 30 or 40 weight non-dedergent oil will work in the injector lube systems on cycle and snowmobiles with no adjustments needed-full throttle for extended periods not recommended, general use at up to 3/4 throttle OK. Jet fuel JP1 and 2 and kerosene about same formula for base and vapor point about 100 degrees. JP3, 4,5 have increasingly higher vapor points with JP5 as used by Navy at 150 degrees. JP5 if used in diesel engines adjusted for it"s use noted to have very good power. RN