2520 starter issues

[sheibult]

I have a 2520 that after sitting will not start with the starter button. If I jump across the solenoid (even momentarily) then it will start fine as long as it is started regularly,(every few days). If it sits, it will go back to needing to be jumped across the solenoid.

It appears to have a new solenoid on it, so I imagine the previous owner was having issues as well

Any ideas?

Thanks

 

[Bob Bancroft]

I have a 2520 that after sitting will not start with the starter button. If I jump across the solenoid (even momentarily) then it will start fine as long as it is started regularly,(every few days). If it sits, it will go back to needing to be jumped across the solenoid.

It appears to have a new solenoid on it, so I imagine the previous owner was having issues as well

Any ideas?

Thanks

I'd have to check to be sure, but I think there might be a little relay remote from the starter which energizes the starter solenoid. My 2520 did not have a starter button like the 2510 did. Key switch did it all.

 

[Tx Jim]

If you're referring to a JD 2520 rowcrop tractor JD offered a starter relay mounted on firewall above starter. Be sure this relay is receiving good electrical connections more especially the ground connection to operate relay. https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sidebyside/equipment/7833/referrer/search/pgId/757379

 

[bv]

As Jim said check all wires and connections and be sure they are clean, mine did the same thing and it can be something you would never suspect.

 

[matthies]

Try moving your shifter from top to bottom and see if she cranks, neutral switch or shift cam could need to be adjusted.

 

[sheibult]

If you're referring to a JD 2520 rowcrop tractor JD offered a starter relay mounted on firewall above starter. Be sure this relay is receiving good electrical connections more especially the ground connection to operate relay. https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sidebyside/equipment/7833/referrer/search/pgId/757379

The current set up does not have a separate relay mounted on the firewall.... based on the lack of paint, the solenoid has been replaced.

 

[matthies]

Your neutral start switch would be behind the battery box shown.

 

[sheibult]

So after getting a minute to dig deeper, I am only getting 6v to the S side of the starter solenoid and the coil. (12V at the alternator / other keyed accessories). The wire supplying the 6v gets very warm with the key on and engine off.....once the engine starts, it cools down.
What would cause the voltage drop?

 

[Fixingfarmer]

What’s the coil wire have for voltage to it? There is a resistor I believe on some 20 series attached to the actual key switch because a 6v ignition coil is used even though the tractor is 12 had an 2510 and 3010 wired similarly and thats where they add the resistor it’s a bit different than some tractors where the resistor isn’t too far from the coil inline. That would be 6volt exactly. Is it possible someone wired the starter wire to an ignition terminal accidentally or ??? And might have enough juice to spin the starter while the battery is fully charged up after just having ran.

 

[used red MN]

I am only getting 6v to the S side of the starter solenoid and the coil.

Are you sure you are not reading the “R” terminal voltage? The S terminal will only have voltage when the start circuit is energized by the key. I think it is very possible that the wire is getting warm because it is supposed to because it is being used as the resistor. IH tractors that also used Delco Remy electrical systems did this in that era as well. Now I am not a 100 percent certain Deere did this but I think it is a good chance. Everything Fixing Farmer said likely applies to your tractor. The R terminal is energized by the starter solenoid when cranking. This energizes the 6 volt coil with 12 volts to allow a hotter spark while cranking. Then the engine starts and the R terminal is not energized the voltage to the coil is reduced by either a resistor or the length of the wire in the harness. Sometimes in some applications a length of wire was actually added in the harness and it doubled back to get the proper length to provide the correct resistance. You need to make sure you are testing voltage on the “S” solenoid terminal when the key is in the crank position. I don’t think the low voltage you’re seeing on that other circuit is a problem.
Edit to add: The resistor wire will generate less heat when the engine is running due to the points will be opening and closing, as opposed to now the points are closed constantly when the engine is stopped.

 

[Tx Jim]

Are you sure you're checking "S" terminal on starter solenoid? Starter relay I referred to earlier is part # RE170320. JD 2520 PC shows a relay as standard equipment. https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sidebyside/equipment/7833/referrer/navigation/pgId/757379

 

[Jim.ME]

 

[sheibult]

Are you sure you are not reading the “R” terminal voltage? The S terminal will only have voltage when the start circuit is energized by the key. I think it is very possible that the wire is getting warm because it is supposed to because it is being used as the resistor. IH tractors that also used Delco Remy electrical systems did this in that era as well. Now I am not a 100 percent certain Deere did this but I think it is a good chance. Everything Fixing Farmer said likely applies to your tractor. The R terminal is energized by the starter solenoid when cranking. This energizes the 6 volt coil with 12 volts to allow a hotter spark while cranking. Then the engine starts and the R terminal is not energized the voltage to the coil is reduced by either a resistor or the length of the wire in the harness. Sometimes in some applications a length of wire was actually added in the harness and it doubled back to get the proper length to provide the correct resistance. You need to make sure you are testing voltage on the “S” solenoid terminal when the key is in the crank position. I don’t think the low voltage you’re seeing on that other circuit is a problem.
Edit to add: The resistor wire will generate less heat when the engine is running due to the points will be opening and closing, as opposed to now the points are closed constantly when the engine is stopped.

The S terminal is only seeing voltage when the key is on.
This makes sense in regards to the resistance wire. The wire has obviously be altered in the past.....would a new wire from the harness to the coil with an inline resistor be an acceptable replacement?

 

[sheibult]

Are you sure you're checking "S" terminal on starter solenoid? Starter relay I referred to earlier is part # RE170320. JD 2520 PC shows a relay as standard equipment. https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sidebyside/equipment/7833/referrer/navigation/pgId/757379

Tx Jim, I don't currently have a relay on the tractor....it may have been altered in the past??

 

[Jim.ME]

The S terminal is only seeing voltage when the key is on.
This makes sense in regards to the resistance wire. The wire has obviously be altered in the past.....would a new wire from the harness to the coil with an inline resistor be an acceptable replacement?

Do you have the John Deere service/technical manual for your tractor that has the wiring diagrams in it?

The S terminal should only see battery voltage when the key is turned to start.

The R terminal is the one that would see ignition voltage (this can be less than 12 volts if the switch has a resistor on it or there is a resistance wire between the switch and the R terminal) when the key is on (run position), provided the wire for the ignition runs from the switch to the R terminal and then on to the coil.

 

[sheibult]

Do you have the John Deere service/technical manual for your tractor that has the wiring diagrams in it?

The S terminal should only see battery voltage when the key is turned to start.

The R terminal is the one that would see ignition voltage (this can be less than 12 volts if the switch has a resistor on it or there is a resistance wire between the switch and the R terminal) when the key is on (run position), provided the wire for the ignition runs from the switch to the R terminal and then on to the coil.

Jim.ME, I don't currently have a tech manual (I need to get one ordered)
The S terminal does only see voltage with the key on (it is a push button start....key on, then push the button)

 

[used red MN]

The S terminal should only see battery voltage when the key is turned to start.

The R terminal is the one that would see ignition voltage (this can be less than 12 volts if the switch has a resistor on it or there is a resistance wire between the switch and the R terminal) when the key is on (run position), provided the wire for the ignition runs from the switch to the R terminal and then on to the coil.

Times 2.. refer to Jim’s picture in reply 12. When the “S” terminal gets voltage the starter should engage. This should only happen when the key is turned to the crank or start position or the start button is pushed if that is what it is equipped with. The “S” terminal connects internally to the electromagnetic coil in the solenoid that when energized pulls magnetically against the solenoid plunger to engage the starter drive and close the contacts to energize the starter motor so it turns.

 

[used red MN]

The “S” terminal connects internally to the electromagnetic coil in the solenoid that when energized pulls magnetically against the solenoid plunger to engage the starter drive and close the contacts to energize the starter motor so it turns.

Here is a video of a heavier duty truck/industrial Delco M42 starter, the Solid Link feature doesn’t apply to your starter, I am just linking it to show you the internet operation. Pay close attention to the starter as it is shown in the very first part of the video before they go to the cut away, notice the position of the pivot pin for the drive engagement fork at the right on the starter nose which is the vertical part pivoting on that pin. I just want you to imagine how the movement translates into the engagement of the drive into the flywheel.
Delco solenoid operation

 

[Jim.ME]

Jim.ME, I don't currently have a tech manual (I need to get one ordered)
The S terminal does only see voltage with the key on (it is a push button start....key on, then push the button)

You post telling the S terminal has power when the key is on is misleading. To be clear. The key has to be on for the start button to have power. However, the solenoid only sees power when you push the start button. That is not the same as the S terminal having power when the key is on, which most here would understand as the S terminal is energized whenever the key is on.

And the solenoid is only seeing 6 volts when the starter button is pushed. It has no power if the start button is not pushed. Is this, correct?

If so, you have bad contacts in a switch, wiring connections, or a bad wire. Only having 6 volts when the start button is pushed, instead of battery voltage tells me something is causing high resistance, and the wire heating is a sign of that.

 

[sheibult]

Times 2.. refer to Jim’s picture in reply 12. When the “S” terminal gets voltage the starter should engage. This should only happen when the key is turned to the crank or start position or the start button is pushed if that is what it is equipped with. The “S” terminal connects internally to the electromagnetic coil in the solenoid that when energized pulls magnetically against the solenoid plunger to engage the starter drive and close the contacts to energize the starter motor so it turns.

Correct. The only time I have voltage on the S terminal is when the starter button is pushed with the key on. I am however only getting 6v. I installed a new wire to the coil in place of the resister wire (will need to install an inline resister) and am getting 12V to the coil with the key on.

You post telling the S terminal has power when the key is on is misleading. To be clear. The key has to be on for the start button to have power. However, the solenoid only sees power when you push the start button. That is not the same as the S terminal having power when the key is on, which most here would understand as the S terminal is energized whenever the key is on.

And the solenoid is only seeing 6 volts when the starter button is pushed. It has no power if the start button is not pushed. Is this, correct?

If so, you have bad contacts in a switch, wiring connections, or a bad wire. Only having 6 volts when the start button is pushed, instead of battery voltage tells me something is causing high resistance, and the wire heating is a sign of that.

Jim, Key on, no voltage at S terminal, Key on and starter button pushed = voltage at S terminal (6V)