2N WIRING

[chartwe5]

Hi all,
This is a continued post from last week to all that remember my, we'll use the polite word CUSTOM WIREING on a 2N with a Magneto, pulled all the wires off, so i can start fresh, first i just want to get her started, then i will wire for charging, so i hooked my battery cables up neg ground, posative to starter sylinoid, ground from small post on slyinoid to clean head bolt 10 gauge wire, but when i hooked the pos battery cable to the sylinoid it instantly wanted to turn over, i was expecting to connect the small post to the batt post with a scerwdriver, the posative battery cable to the post marked BATT is correct right, atleast the oil pressure went up when she turned over, but i have no spark, i have had the MAG off, do you need to time the MAG or is there anything i have to do to the mag, or could the points be bad, i can answer any questions in more detail if needed????

 

[Bob]

A 2N wouldn't have had a starter solenoid "as built", so exactly what you have is anyone's guess.

I'm NOT understanding WHY you ran the wire from the small solenoid terminal to the cylinder head bolt???? If the solenoid you have is of the type used on 8N's, grounding the little terminal is SUPPOSED to make the solenoid engage.

You can "bench test" the mag by carefully and gently clamping the lower mounting ear in a vise, then clamping a ViseGrip to one of the drive lugs and using it to turn the mag. You should be able to feel the impulse catch, wind up, then trip twice per revolution. Each time it trips, there should be a spark at one of the high-tension "nipples", in sequential order.

If there's no spark or a weak spark, likely, the points need to be cleaned up or replaced, and it's POSSIBLE for the condensor or coil to be "bad".

And, yes, the mag needs to be timed to the engine.

 

[Anonymous-0]

First I recommend check'N the archives for a wiring diagram.

Second...2N's have POSITIVE + ground.

John,PA

 

[chartwe5]

What do you do to time the mag ????

 

[chartwe5]

I have looked for a diagram but i have not seen any showing a mag, and i have a unusual situation, the tractor ran fine until the tear down, but i have a 12V ALT with the mag, starter sylinoid and vaoltage reg.

 

[jack harmon]

OK take your wire off the small post on solenoid,then hook the other side of solenoid to starter.now we don't know what type of solenoid you have,but since you said when you it tied to start when you had it grounded I would assume its a 6v solenoid,they are wired different than a 12 but will work.in your original post it LOOKED like you had a push button switch on dash,run your small solenoid wire to one side of this and the other side to ground then when you push button starter should engage,since we cant physically check it try this first, remove the small wire from our solenoid hook up starter cable to other big post on solenoid.the solenoid is nothing more than a big high amp switch,the small wire is what controls it.now touch a ground wire momentarily to small post to ground if it cranks,good, wire as previously. if it just sparks and nothing else,hook up a wire from battery side of solenoid to push button switch and run a wire from other side of switch to small on solenoid.this should get you cranking...now to check fire and time gov,first we need to know if impulse is working on magneto,while cranking you SHOULD HEAR a fairly loud clicking noise coming from mag if not mag needs repair,if you have had your mag off already,you could take it off again and turn it by hand,it wont start at cranking speeds without impulse so it must be working FIRST!!!impulse dogs wont engage if you turn mag backwards so you must turn it in the direction it normally turns.you should feel if your turning it by hand some resistance before impulse lets loose and fires mag.don't put your hand over cap or touch post on side while your doing this cause if it fires it will knock you down.do these things first and let use know and we'll time and check for spark.

 

[Bob]

You would need to find #1 TDC by removing that sparkplug, placing a finger OVER the hole, then slowly cranking the engine over 'til that cylinder comes up on compression.

Once you feel air being forced out of the cylinder, you can then snake a thin wire into the sparkplug hole over to the piston top and "feel" the piston coming up, stopping when it's all the way up, at TDC.

As the compression stroke ends, the mag impulse should snap at TDC. Note the terminal that the mags rotor has just passed. connect that high-tension terminal to #1 sparkplug, then arrange the remaining wires around the mag's cap in engine firing order, in the direction the rotor turns, IIRC, CW.You want the mag to fire AT or JUST AFTER TDC, to avoid "kickback".

 

[Bob]

Just to be SURE, you don't now (or ever) have battery power to the "kill" terminal on the mag?

The mag is self-powered and it's innards will get toasted if you feed battery power into it!

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 11:24:48 12/15/08) Just to be SURE, you don't now (or ever) have battery power to the "kill" terminal on the mag?

The mag is self-powered and it's innards will get toasted if you feed battery power into it!

Although it isn't possible to be sure, based on all the photos, it does look very much like that unfortunate even may have already occurred.

 

[jack harmon]

to time mag,find top dead center on #1 cyl. this is how I do it, pull #1 plug,(toward front of engine) put finger over hole and crank engine until I feel compression blow.then i fill #1 cyl with oil and by watching level of oil I rock engine back and forth with fan blade till I find tdc.LEAVE PLUG OUT!now to time engine loosen adjusting bolt on mag ,turn it in the opposite direction than it normally turns and then slowly start turning it back until impulse just releases (fires) then lock it down with adjusting screw.this will put your timing very close to correct.now BEFORE you reinstall #1 plug crank engine over several times to blow oil out of cyl.OIL WILL go Everywhere but as I say that's how I do it. reinstall plug and install plug wires in proper order following direction of mag rotation.check for fire by seeing if fire will jump from wire to cap<or will fire plug> however you prefer.if not,CLEAN not file points and re gap.

 

[souNdguy]

If you have a oem ford N solenoid.. then it energices by grounding the small terminal.

what do you have?

soundguy

 

[jack harmon]

looks like it to me too,but hopefully not.

 

[chartwe5]

battery power has never been to the mag

 

[Den N Ms]

chartwe5 ,To get your engine cranking I told you to run a 10Ga wire from a good ground (engine block ) or your ground cable connection to the one of the solenoid mounting bolts. So the solenoid will have a good ground to entergize.The reason being is that the tool box is not a good ground.put the wire from the push button switch back on the small post of the solenoid.

 

[Bob]

WOW that must be one honk'in solenoid if it needs to be grounded with a 10-GA wire!

 

[jack harmon]

ONE thing I failed to mention and most important MAKE SURE YOUR TRACTOR IS OUT OF GEAR!!BEFORE you try to set magneto if you have wires in wrong place even with #1 plug out if mag fires tractor could theoretically start.anytime you are working on a magneto equipped engine kill post on side of mag SHOULD be grounded.also don't let tractor roll ever with a magneto without kill switch closed.since magneto fires on its own without any battery.power there is always a chance of starting if mag turns.you probably know this already but just in case!

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 15:04:37 12/15/08) WOW that must be one honk'in solenoid if it needs to be grounded with a 10-GA wire!

Probably snagged it off this little baby at local bone yard. :lol:

 

[Den N Ms]

I know ,a 14Ga. or even a 16Ga. would work but he said that he all ready said he had a 10 ga. hooked up to a ground.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 15:22:26 12/15/08) I know ,a 14Ga. or even a 16Ga. would work but he said that he all ready said he had a 10 ga. hooked up to a ground.

Yeah! He started out explaining ("CUSTOM WIREING on a 2N with.."), so anything goes here. 00 to 30ga. :twisted:

 

[chartwe5]

Ok, I put the ground to one of the mounting bolts, my mistake was i put it to the small post instead, and then to the block, ok simple fix,
Thanks...

 

[Bob]

Yup!

<img src = "http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z232/JMOR_photo/Engine/12-Cyl-3.jpg">

 

[jack harmon]

Dont matter if you use 10 ,16,or 4/0.did you get it turning over and started?

 

[chartwe5]

Actually, tonight i will be working on it,so hopefully i will have some luck, i will post tomorrow