3 CYL vs 4 CYL - Pros Cons?

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

Yesterday our in-house Thousand Series Expert, ULTRADOG, and I had another phone conversation. We hadn't been in touch for several months due to my health issues (chronic arthritis and battling anemia still now for over a year -they can't identify the root cause) and a major move but we touched base to discuss world problems and FORD tractors. I've only owned FORD N-SERIES models and have worked on them, Hundreds, a few 2000 & 3000s, and a few Japanese models like a 1300. I've decided that I want to learn much more about Thousands and want my next tractor to be a 3 CYL 3000. I've driven a 5000 before when one of my old tractor clubs had sawmill and would use the 5000 to power it when we put on shows. That is a sweet machine but a bit of an overkill for my needs now. We recently moved about 40 miles north to a Michigan Thumb city and though no longer on any land or farming, can use the 3000 to plow snow and mow a bit with. Once you get the FORD TRACTOR bug, it's hard to lose, you know! All of my manuals and books are in a UHAUL storage facility 50 miles south so I don't have them to start rereading about the Thousands and the 3 cylinders. I want to get into the Pro's and Con's of 3 cylinders vs 4 cylinders and so whatever you gurus can offer will be appreciated. I recall reading that the first 4 cylinder 2000's were designed to supplant the 8N model. I wanted my next model to be bigger and better, a 1956 860, but now want to go more advanced. I love the N's, learned much, but had to sell my 8N and most of my tractor stuff in 2020 when the farm sold and I had to downsize. I still have my grandfather's early 1939 9N I'm restoring, but it is 400 miles away right now at a friends' shop. Here's a pic of an old tractor club I was in and we had an old time sawmill where we put on sawing displays at shows. Shown is my early 8N and Dearborn Cordwood saw but you can barely see the rear end of the 5000 we used to power it with. My email is open if anyone wants to chat offline. Got the itch once again...


1948 8N & DEARBORN CORDWOOD SAW w/ FORD 5000 POWERED SAWMILL:

Muchisimas Gracias.
Tim Daley(MI)

 

[Tom in Mo.]

The first thing that comes to mind is the three cylinder engine is inherently balanced by the 120 degree crank throws. I own both 3 and 4 cylinder machines.

 

[Mike(NEOhio)]

I pulled a 1207 MoCo in my hilly fields with a 3 cyl. 2000 for ten years till I got a larger tractor. It had enough power to run in third (six speed) probably could do fourth if the fields were smooth. Never spent enough time on a 4 cyl model to make a comparison, though. It pulled OK but I went to a larger tractor because of the non-live PTO and it wasn't heavy enough to make turns on the slopes. I'd have to drive out and make a loop at the corners.

 

[Fordfarmer]

The 3 cylinder models are much heavier built. If you ever saw the cranks side by side, you'd be surprised. The pre-'65 models have 3 main bearing, while the '65 and newer 3 cylinders have 4 (and the 4 cylinder models have 5).

 

[Destroked 450]

Talked to Ultradog myself yesterday, sending him a bottom drawbar mount for his 4200
Dad had a 8N when I was young but traded it for a 850 and that s what I grew up on, loved that tractor growing up and it was the most powerful tractor for it s size I ve ever set on, I drove that tractor a lot with the brakes because the front end was hanging in the air with the front tires a couple feet off the ground
That said I d take a 3 cylinder tractor over the older 4 cylinder models any day
The 4 cylinder gas engines are much easier to tune and maintain but the 3 cylinder diesel is way more robust and durable
Having operated both a 3000 and 4000SU the 4000SU is far superior to a 3000 and only 2 inches longer in overall size
SU has heavier planetary rear axle that feels much more stable than the lighter 3000 axle
SU s wet disc brakes makes one wonder if the 3000 has any brakes at all
Different opinions on independent pto verses live pto, all I m going to say is these old legs much prefer the lower clutch pedal height of the independent pto on the SU

I like my 4000SU but if purchasing today I d look for a 4600SU with its paper air filter and higher flow hydraulic pump
Not seen often but a 4100 is a 4600SU with slightly smaller engine, 45 hp verses 52 ho

 

[Ultradog MN]

Yeah,
Nice talking with you again Tim. It has been a while. You sounded much more chipper yesterday than last time we talked and I could 'hear' that your health - and outlook are improving.
Good!
As to the tractors, a 3000 is more husky than an 800.
According to the Nebraska tests an 800 weighs in at 3255 lbs with no added ballast.
A 3000 weighs 4095 lbs with no added ballast.
That means heavier componants throughout.
One example is as Fordfarmer mentioned, the crankshafts. A 3 cylinder crank weighs in at 80+ lbs. I don't think a 4 cyl crank would hit 50 lbs.
And a 3 cylinder crank has quite a bit more bearing surface (mains+rods) - I'm guessing around 60% more - which translates into longevity in the bottom end.
A 3 cyl had more transmission options behind it.
801 platform had 4, 5 10(SOS) and 12 (w Sherman)
3000 platform has 4, 6, 8, 10(SOS) 12 (w/Sherman) plus 6x4 and 4x4 w/torque converter.
Brakes, steering and hydraulics are pretty much identical on both platforms.
I think some repairs are easier on a 3 cyl.
It is easier to pull the radiator on a 3 cyl for example.
3 cyl has a better rear main seal for sure.
Easier to get at the governor on one, easier to adjust valves but a pia to put points in one and a real pia to pull the carb on a 3 cyl.
The earlier 4 cyl tractors were simpler to overhaul as they had sleeves. 3 cyl overhaul always means a bore job.
Just some random thoughts...

 

[Ultradog MN]

Thanks John.
Check goes out today.

 

[Keith Williams]

Tim,
I have and use one of each.
Love them both!
My 1964 Ford 4000 Gas was purchased in April of 64 by my father. No power steering. It struggles in snow and ice as there is just not enough weight to make it stick (I have hills). I put wheel weights on it to keep the front end down when I use it with the 6 foot Woods Mower. The picture shows it with a 9 foot NH 451 Mower. I enjoyed using it this year to mow around 30 acres. Parts are available.
My 1978 Ford 4600 Diesel was purchased in 2018 from a cousin. The 8 speed crash box is much more robust than the 5 speed on the 4000. More gears in the working range. I do hate reverse as R1 is too slow and R2 is too fast. Runs the road much faster in 8th. Hydraulics are much faster. The diesel is much better on fuel when working it hard. I added 4 weights on the front to keep it down with the 6 foot mower on my hills. 2 are enough but 4 make it solid to the ground. It is MUCH louder. Ear protection is a necessity.
Both are now 12 Volt.
HTH
Keith

 

[Keith Williams]

 

[Keith Williams]

 

[strum456]

Lift capacity is far greater on the 3000 series than the 800 series. Looking at the two tractors side by side, one may not notice how much more capable the 3000s are. Add another thousand, and you get that much more capability over again. Any time we get into something that is maxing out one of the old Ford's, the running joke is we could have used another thousand.

 

[Hobo,NC]

I am working on a newly acquired 3000 now the fuel lines were bent around to eliminate the sediment bowl and original shut off. Normally I would battle removing the carb and points deal. The distributor falls out simple as it could be once its removed replacing the carb is a cake walk. What other tractor has points with a lifetime warranty I got a set from Advance that has a lifetime warranty.

Hundred verses a thousand I have had both I like the thousand. I will say the 850 gas was a strong tractor it just lacked live PTO so sold it.

I dunno what I am going to do with the new 3000 sell are give to my SIL... Since I got a 3000 years ago I sold my favorite N and the other good runner has not been ran in years.

 

[Lynn Patrick]

Can't argue w/what anyone has said, but to me the biggest reason I like the 4 cylinders is the others sound like they're only running on three cylinders!