3 point backhoe hydraulics

[Jim.ME]

What is going on with this hose? Take a photo of it from above or better yet unplugged. It takes a lot to link a hydraulic hose completely shut but stranger things have happened. View attachment 140400

I was just going to post that same thing. From what I see that hose is junk and may well be part of the problem.

 

[Ohtuckian2025]

What is going on with this hose? Take a photo of it from above or better yet unplugged. It takes a lot to kink a hydraulic hose completely shut but stranger things have happened. View attachment 140400

The hose you have circled is just in horrible shape as are most of them. I have changed out several hoses but I've got more to do. So, after I compared the ends, I see a difference. Is that the problem? Are those not the right hose ends?

 

[TractorTech]

It might kink it, but 2000 psi +/- shouldn't deadhead against a kink. However, I agree, replace that hose before it blows oil all over you and your shop!

 

[Tractorcedric]

I have a 1968 Massey Ferguson 175 with a Perkins diesel engine. It has two hydraulic circuits on it. I recently bought a Grizzly BH105 backhoe for it. Apparently, Grizzly has gone out of business so I can't get help from them. I was told that I could just hook up the hydraulic hoses from the backhoe to one of the tractor hydraulic circuits and tie the lever back. When I do that it just deadheads. I know the hydraulics work because I have a front loader on it and it works like it's supposed to. The front loader uses both hydraulic quick disconnects, so I have to unhook the curl cylinder and use that circuit for the backhoe. Can someone guide me on how to hook up the hydraulics on an old tractor?

Not sure if this would help. But I have a loader valve with three spools that was made for the Massey Ferguson tractors. It mounts to the top of the trans cover. There is a cast plate that bolts down that is located next to your right knee when you are in the seat. Under that cover is a downtube that goes right into the pump, I think. With this valve you could run your loader and then use your remotes for something else. I could be wrong about that part! Since this valve has three spools the third one could be used to run your backhoe maybe. You can have this valve, just pay the freight from Utah. I could post a picture.

 

[used red MN]

The hose you have circled is just in horrible shape as are most of them. I have changed out several hoses but I've got more to do. So, after I compared the ends, I see a difference. Is that the problem? Are those not the right hose ends?

You don’t show the ends of the BH hoses. It looks like it might have the pointed tip style instead of the balls. Sometimes that can be a problem but I have also seen them work for years being mismatched. Screw the ball type loader couplers on the backhoe hoses and see if works then. Are there any marks or indicator letters on the hoe valve that might tell you which is supply to the hoe and which is the return?

 

[Jim.ME]

Not sure if this would help. But I have a loader valve with three spools that was made for the Massey Ferguson tractors. It mounts to the top of the trans cover. There is a cast plate that bolts down that is located next to your right knee when you are in the seat. Under that cover is a downtube that goes right into the pump, I think. With this valve you could run your loader and then use your remotes for something else. I could be wrong about that part! Since this valve has three spools the third one could be used to run your backhoe maybe. You can have this valve, just pay the freight from Utah. I could post a picture.

He has the auxiliary hydraulics package. The valve you are talking about is normally used to add remotes or other function to a tractor without the auxiliary hydraulics. It ties into the 3-point hitch pump which is smaller than the auxiliary pump.

 

[Jim.ME]

Could you elaborate on the slotted screws statement. The front loader uses a double acting cylinder to curl the bucket and 2 single acting cylinders to raise and lower the bucket.

The screws operate a switch valve for each spool. Fully out is for single acting cylinders and the drop port is to be plugged. I am guessing the valve with one port capped off is set for single acting and operates the loader lift cylinders. The screw turned fully in is for double acting cylinders. That should be the spool operating the bucket cylinder.

 

[Jim.ME]

It might kink it, but 2000 psi +/- shouldn't deadhead against a kink. However, I agree, replace that hose before it blows oil all over you and your shop!

It shouldn't, but I have seen it happen, without leaking.

 

[Jim.ME]

The hose you have circled is just in horrible shape as are most of them. I have changed out several hoses but I've got more to do. So, after I compared the ends, I see a difference. Is that the problem? Are those not the right hose ends?

Why not get the new hoses and a pair of new male coupler ends. They should be the standard 1/2" Pioneer type ends, with the appropriate thread bores for the hoses.

 

[moresmoke]

It looks like there is a block under the front of the backhoe that the 2 hoses attach to. Need to figure out if that is just a junction block or if it is a valve of some sort.

 

[matthies]

What is going on with this hose? Take a photo of it from above or better yet unplugged. It takes a lot to kink a hydraulic hose completely shut but stranger things have happened. View attachment 140400

The hose under the circled one doesn't look like it is fully installed.

 

[used red MN]

The hose under the circled one doesn't look like it is fully installed.

Looking closer I agree. If the area I circled in this picture is showing the ball bearings that are supposed to seat in the groove of the male coupler tip then that sleeve in the coupler is not slid into the proper position. Those back hoe hose tips need to be buffed off with a wire wheel or cleaned off with emery tape.

 

[used red MN]

It looks like there is a block under the front of the backhoe that the 2 hoses attach to. Need to figure out if that is just a junction block or if it is a valve of some sort.

Ohtuckian, I think he is referring to the photos in your first set of posted photos labeled 2028 & 2029, are the hoses coming back towards the camera in these photos the ones you connected to the tractor? If so where do the hoses go that point down out of that block? Do they go to the single connections on each end of the BH valve block as circled here?

 

[Jim.ME]

It looks like there is a block under the front of the backhoe that the 2 hoses attach to. Need to figure out if that is just a junction block or if it is a valve of some sort.

I believe it is a junction block that the manufacturer put on the backhoe to give an easy place to attach supply and return hoses between the tractor and hoe rather than going straight to the hoe control valve. The way the hoses loop down and towards the hoe valve and the hoses coming up to each end of the control valve matches that routing. And the two black hoses are the two hoses to the tractor remote couplers.



Edited to add picture

 

[Jim.ME]

The hose you have circled is just in horrible shape as are most of them. I have changed out several hoses but I've got more to do. So, after I compared the ends, I see a difference. Is that the problem? Are those not the right hose ends?

Which end block of the hoe control valve has the main relief valve in it? That would be the one that should get pressure. The one without the relief valve would be the return to the tractor. If you don't know take pictures that show the top of the control valve where the levers attach to the spools and the bottom of the valve bank behind the hoses. Those areas are blocked from view by the cowl and hoses in all your pictures of the hoe control valve.

Just to confirm. I am understanding you are using the two couplers that you have the hoe plugged into in these pictures to operate the double acting cylinder of your loader and the other single remote to operate the lift cylinders. And the loader hydraulics function properly when connected. Is that correct?

If that is correct, I have to believe there is an issue with the male coupler end(s) and/or hose(s) between the tractor and backhoe. Given the condition of at least one of those hoses I stand by my earlier recommendation of replace those two hoses and the male coupler ends on them. I think that area needs to be corrected before proceeding.

The following manual part numbers are for a North American MF 175, which I am guessing you have. The Great Britian built, MF 175 (GBR). uses some different manuals.

Do you have the Operator's Manual part number 1448072M_ (M4 is the current printing but any M number is good) for the 175 with the Perkins engines?

You should also have the Hydraulic system Operator's Manual as well. That is part number 690562M3. It covers the operation of the several different hydraulic system arrangements used on the 135 through 180 tractors.

The Service Manual is part number 14448815M_. (M1 is a packet of all the pages you put in your own three ring binder and M92 is an assembled manual in an AGCO/MF three ring binder [at a much higher cost])

The Manual numbers are from AGCOpubs.com, the official bookstore for purchase of MF manuals. You can use the manual numbers to find the right ones if you shop here or other places for manuals.

The parts book for the 175 is available online. Here is a link to it.

MF 175 parts book

 

[showcrop]

I've thought about that, but I'm sure a PTO pump would be somewhat expensive.

Yes, a PTO pump is expensive but it will be much faster than the 175 hydraulics

 

[Jim.ME]

Yes, a PTO pump is expensive but it will be much faster than the 175 hydraulics

And it will require adding an oil reservoir for best results, rather than trying to pull from the tractor hydraulic reservoir (trans/differential case) as it does now. The auxiliary hydraulic pump on that tractor should be about a 10 GPM pump.

 

[cjunrau]

I have a 1968 Massey Ferguson 175 with a Perkins diesel engine. It has two hydraulic circuits on it. I recently bought a Grizzly BH105 backhoe for it. Apparently, Grizzly has gone out of business so I can't get help from them. I was told that I could just hook up the hydraulic hoses from the backhoe to one of the tractor hydraulic circuits and tie the lever back. When I do that it just deadheads. I know the hydraulics work because I have a front loader on it and it works like it's supposed to. The front loader uses both hydraulic quick disconnects, so I have to unhook the curl cylinder and use that circuit for the backhoe. Can someone guide me on how to hook up the hydraulics on an old tractor?

Hydraulics are simple. so first you need to make sure the 2 hoses coming from the backhoe are hooked to the in and out of the valve body on the hoe.
I am not familiar with the massy. But someone mentioned double acting cylinder on the loader. If it has double acting and works with that valve on the tractor hooking up the 2 hoe lines to that outlet will work.
you need to make 100% sure the hoses are plugged in. Lots of people plug it in and have not made sure they are all the way in. If they are for sure plugged in and it does not work........
Now you need to know if yo are getting oil to the hoe. Plug in the lines and crack them open at the hoe valve body. if they leak when pulling tractor lever oil is getting there. I will often remove the line and hold in a pail and get someone to gently pull back on lever.
I have had good looking tips not open at all and I also have had worn out ones that if you pulled the leaver fast they would stop letting oil through.
One test i would do is tie a hoe lever back and then operate tractor hyd lever and see if anything happened. Move the lever slow, if it works then go fast and if it stops when you go fast you know the tips are shot. If the hoe is closed center it will still work if you tie the lever back on the hoe. In your case you said nothing happens which leaves me to believe you have a tip problem or they were not completely plugged in.

Or someone has hooked the lines in the wrong place on the hoe. that you will need to figure out where they should go. Usually easy to see.

 

[Ohtuckian2025]

Not sure if this would help. But I have a loader valve with three spools that was made for the Massey Ferguson tractors. It mounts to the top of the trans cover. There is a cast plate that bolts down that is located next to your right knee when you are in the seat. Under that cover is a downtube that goes right into the pump, I think. With this valve you could run your loader and then use your remotes for something else. I could be wrong about that part! Since this valve has three spools the third one could be used to run your backhoe maybe. You can have this valve, just pay the freight from Utah. I could post a picture.

I would appreciate some pictures. I would be interested in buying it from you because I will need an extra circuit to be able to use the front loader and the backhoe without having to change the hoses around everytime I use it.

 

[Ohtuckian2025]

You don’t show the ends of the BH hoses. It looks like it might have the pointed tip style instead of the balls. Sometimes that can be a problem but I have also seen them work for years being mismatched. Screw the ball type loader couplers on the backhoe hoses and see if works then. Are there any marks or indicator letters on the hoe valve that might tell you which is supply to the hoe and which is the return?

Yes, sorry about that. The hoses for the backhoe have a pointed depressor and the hoses for the loader (on the tractor) are a smooth ball. I'm going to unhook the hoses from the backhoe valve and see if they're even getting fluid. I didn't think that would matter, but after all the suggestions on here, I'm going out to try that here in a little bit.