424 hydraulic system and loader help

[Anonymous-0]

Ok I replied on another thread and thought I might get more help starting a new one. Here is my setup. I currently have a 424 with a freeman hyd loader, power up and down and power bucket up and down. I currently have a pto driven hydraulic pump with a aux hyd tank right behind the seat. I am wanting to do away with this setup as the tank is in my way and the pto mounted pump makes it difficult to borrow or rent pto driven equipment due to needing a shorter shaft since the pump is taking up 7-8 inches. I have read different ways to hook this up to my tractor. my tractor does have power steering and 1 aux valve to the left of the seat (want to use that hyd top link). I believe my current loader valves are a flow through type as the pressure goes up to them and it has a return going out of it. I know I will not have the speed I have now if I tap into the factory setup. Can I just take my pressure line off between the pump the diverter valve and run it up to the loader valve and then run the outlet back down to the diverter valve? or do i need to tap into it after the diverter valve? if anyone has pictures I would appreciate it. I have seen several pictures on the net of a return line going into the top of the hyd reservoir but can not figure out where they are getting the pressure from. thanks in advance chris

also is there a complete kit for running a front (crank) mounted pump? thanks

 

[JimB2]

Hi CSnow, there is a method to connect your FEL
valves into the PS/3pt after the splitter
valve.
BUT the pump on the 424 only has an output of
about 6 GPM and the splitter valve splits off 2
to 3 GPM for the PS. Therefore the loader would
be very slow. The older B414, 434 models had
two hydraulic pumps stacked one behind the
other.
Then one pump ran the PS and the other pump ran
3pt. Each pump had 6 GPM output open center.

See following photos:
https://www.google.ca/search?
q=images+of+ih+434+with+loader&biw=1280&bih=657
&tbm=isch&imgil=JzByTN0gkecYuM%253A%253BrxZ-
hUInm4EJNM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.myt
ractorforum.com%25252Fshowthread.php%25253Ft%25
25253D74084&source=iu&pf=m&fir=JzByTN0gkecYuM%2
53A%252CrxZ-
hUInm4EJNM%252C_&usg=__5lZhbXZY_3PTrIQLjzaIiAhp
RhM%3D&ved=0CDAQyjc&ei=dnwwVKaGK5O3yATS0IGYBg#f
acrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=Y_Er-
YJ80xgYbM%253A%3BQ1ysHAQUbOyGuM%3Bhttp%253A%252
F%252Fphotos.yesterdaystractors.com%252Fgallery%252Fpiece
s%252Fp50739.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fforums.ye
sterdaystractors.com%252Fttforum%252Fviewtopic.
php%253Ft%253D713358%2526sid%253D254eb28061f437
d0e62c1d7e33340470%3B688%3B516

Cut a section out of high pressure line after
splitter valve and braze hydraulic fittings on
to high pressure line ends. Then with hydraulic
hoses connect pump side of high pressure line
to input of FEL control valves and connect
output of FEL valves to high pressure line
going into hydraulic reservoir in front of the
seat. If FEL valves have a 3rd return line
coming out of the bottom of the FEL valves then
put a pipe T into the hydraulic reservoir
filler plug and connect the hydraulic hose to
this T.

See this photo:
http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/ttforum/vi
ewtopic.php?
p=3937784&sid=5530951380ba50e4098dd8f17bf9d2e5

Shows a connections for FEL valves on a 434
that the hydraulic reservoir is being removed
on.

Hope this helps
JimB

 

[Anonymous-0]

Thanks for the response, the links are not working though. can I get a different pump for my 424 then? thanks

 

[JimB2]

Try this link:

 

[JimB2]

434 high pressure line for FEL

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 19:32:15 10/04/14) 434 high pressure line for FEL

ok, i see now. I will try and get some pictures tomorrow of mine and what i might try and do. do you even think that running a line directly from the pump to the loader controls and the return to the splitter would work?

 

[Anonymous-0]

also is there a way to tell what gpm pump I have, they have two listed for my model a 4.5 and a 9 gpm.

 

[Owen Aaland]

(quoted from post at 22:57:31 10/04/14) also is there a way to tell what gpm pump I have, they have two listed for my model a 4.5 and a 9 gpm.

You should have the larger pump. The smaller one was used on tractors without power steering. Since the flow divider splits the flow equally between the steering and hitch/auxiliary valves the flow to the rear is the same with either pump.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 16:34:21 10/04/14) Hi CSnow, there is a method to connect your FEL
valves into the PS/3pt after the splitter
valve.
BUT the pump on the 424 only has an output of
about 6 GPM and the splitter valve splits off 2
to 3 GPM for the PS. Therefore the loader would
be very slow. The older B414, 434 models had
two hydraulic pumps stacked one behind the
other.
Then one pump ran the PS and the other pump ran
3pt. Each pump had 6 GPM output open center.

See following photos:
https://www.google.ca/search?
q=images+of+ih+434+with+loader&biw=1280&bih=657
&tbm=isch&imgil=JzByTN0gkecYuM%253A%253BrxZ-
hUInm4EJNM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.myt
ractorforum.com%25252Fshowthread.php%25253Ft%25
25253D74084&source=iu&pf=m&fir=JzByTN0gkecYuM%2
53A%252CrxZ-
hUInm4EJNM%252C_&usg=__5lZhbXZY_3PTrIQLjzaIiAhp
RhM%3D&ved=0CDAQyjc&ei=dnwwVKaGK5O3yATS0IGYBg#f
acrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=Y_Er-
YJ80xgYbM%253A%3BQ1ysHAQUbOyGuM%3Bhttp%253A%252
F%252Fphotos.yesterdaystractors.com%252Fgallery%252Fpiece
s%252Fp50739.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fforums.ye
sterdaystractors.com%252Fttforum%252Fviewtopic.
php%253Ft%253D713358%2526sid%253D254eb28061f437
d0e62c1d7e33340470%3B688%3B516

Cut a section out of high pressure line after
splitter valve and braze hydraulic fittings on
to high pressure line ends. Then with hydraulic
hoses connect pump side of high pressure line
to input of FEL control valves and connect
output of FEL valves to high pressure line
going into hydraulic reservoir in front of the
seat. If FEL valves have a 3rd return line
coming out of the bottom of the FEL valves then
put a pipe T into the hydraulic reservoir
filler plug and connect the hydraulic hose to
this T.

See this photo:
http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/ttforum/vi
ewtopic.php?
p=3937784&sid=5530951380ba50e4098dd8f17bf9d2e5

Shows a connections for FEL valves on a 434
that the hydraulic reservoir is being removed
on.

Hope this helps
JimB

Ok so as I was laying in bed last night around midnight I think I finally figured out how to hook this up. I've got the hyd filter under the steering wheel and the hard line that comes out of it goes to the the aux valve on the left side. If I remove that hard line and run a hose from the filter to the loader valve and then out of the loader valve back to the aux valve it should work then right? will try and get pictures today. thanks again

 

[Anonymous-0]

Hyd filter I am wanting to come out of and run into the loader valves, then out of the loader valves will go back to the aux valves. I will be doing away with the hard line.


aux valve sitting on the floor. this is where the return out of loader valves will go.

Will this work then?

 

[JimB2]

Hi, yes it will work but please read Owen's
post about the caution concerning hooking two
relief valves in series. The FEL valve setup
that we had on our 434 and 384 had a third line
out the bottom that was connected into a pipe T
into the hydraulic filler plug. I believe this
third hydraulic line was used as a bypass if
the relief valve pressure was exceeded. We did
not have remote outlet valve on our 434/384,
they were like the pictures I posted. Both had
tractors had dual hydraulic pumps, one for PS
and one for 3pt and FEL. Our tractors were made
for the Canadian market. The USA assembled ones
were slightly different.

JimB
424 FEL valves cautions

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 13:49:16 10/05/14) Hi, yes it will work but please read Owen's
post about the caution concerning hooking two
relief valves in series. The FEL valve setup
that we had on our 434 and 384 had a third line
out the bottom that was connected into a pipe T
into the hydraulic filler plug. I believe this
third hydraulic line was used as a bypass if
the relief valve pressure was exceeded. We did
not have remote outlet valve on our 434/384,
they were like the pictures I posted. Both had
tractors had dual hydraulic pumps, one for PS
and one for 3pt and FEL. Our tractors were made
for the Canadian market. The USA assembled ones
were slightly different.

JimB
424 FEL valves cautions

Ok I have read that, but I guess I thought by doing it this way it wouldn't be a problem. how do i tell if my valves have the option for relief hose connection? my valve is similar to this http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_7261_7261

Ok I think I just answered my own question. basically my other port on the valve looks like a power beyond, which is what I would hook up to the aux valve on factory side (the one I want to run hyd toplink) then the actual outlet would go to the hyd tank. My next question if all this is correct is what size hoses?

 

[Anonymous-0]

double posts sorry needs deleted

 

[JimB2]

Yes, you are correct, inlet to FEL control
valve from high pressure line out of filter,
power beyond port to the input of the aux valve
and outlet to filler hole in hydraulic tank( on
our 434/384 this line was not high pressure
hose, just a hose like 3/4 inch heater hose on
a car).
The other hydraulic hoses I believe were 1/2
inch.
You could try re-using the existing hoses from
PTO pump but connector ends can be different
like pipe thread or the newer JIC connectors.

JimB

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 10:10:56 10/06/14) Yes, you are correct, inlet to FEL control
valve from high pressure line out of filter,
power beyond port to the input of the aux valve
and outlet to filler hole in hydraulic tank( on
our 434/384 this line was not high pressure
hose, just a hose like 3/4 inch heater hose on
a car).
The other hydraulic hoses I believe were 1/2
inch.
You could try re-using the existing hoses from
PTO pump but connector ends can be different
like pipe thread or the newer JIC connectors.

JimB

Ok another thought, why not come out of the pump then with the 9gpm straight to the loader valves inlet, outlet goes to reservoir, then power beyond goes to the splitter valve for steering and aux valve. will there still be 9gpm at power beyond valve going to splitter? this way I will have a little quicker loader.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 11:39:58 10/06/14)

(quoted from post at 10:10:56 10/06/14) Yes, you are correct, inlet to FEL control
valve from high pressure line out of filter,
power beyond port to the input of the aux valve
and outlet to filler hole in hydraulic tank( on
our 434/384 this line was not high pressure
hose, just a hose like 3/4 inch heater hose on
a car).
The other hydraulic hoses I believe were 1/2
inch.
You could try re-using the existing hoses from
PTO pump but connector ends can be different
like pipe thread or the newer JIC connectors.

JimB

Ok another thought, why not come out of the pump then with the 9gpm straight to the loader valves inlet, outlet goes to reservoir, then power beyond goes to the splitter valve for steering and aux valve. will there still be 9gpm at power beyond valve going to splitter? this way I will have a little quicker loader.

Got all my hoses made up, just waiting on a new/used cage for the differential to start putting everything back together and see how it all works.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 21:39:30 10/11/14)

(quoted from post at 11:39:58 10/06/14)

(quoted from post at 10:10:56 10/06/14) Yes, you are correct, inlet to FEL control
valve from high pressure line out of filter,
power beyond port to the input of the aux valve
and outlet to filler hole in hydraulic tank( on
our 434/384 this line was not high pressure
hose, just a hose like 3/4 inch heater hose on
a car).
The other hydraulic hoses I believe were 1/2
inch.
You could try re-using the existing hoses from
PTO pump but connector ends can be different
like pipe thread or the newer JIC connectors.

JimB

Ok another thought, why not come out of the pump then with the 9gpm straight to the loader valves inlet, outlet goes to reservoir, then power beyond goes to the splitter valve for steering and aux valve. will there still be 9gpm at power beyond valve going to splitter? this way I will have a little quicker loader.

Got all my hoses made up, just waiting on a new/used cage for the differential to start putting everything back together and see how it all works.

Ok I am just going to post up what I ended up doing so if anyone else tries to search they will find this. I ended up coming out of the hyd pump right into the loader control valves (9gpm) I then installed the power beyond sleeve in the valve and ran it to the divider block on the tractor (where the pressure gets split between power steering and hitch) I then ran my outlet side of the loader valve to the fill port on the top of the hitch. I ran it for a few minutes today, this is what I have found out about this setup.

1. If using loader function you will not have power steering or anything on the power beyond port.
2. as long as loader valves are in neutral the power beyond port will work
3. if you have the loader valve in float mode the power beyond port still works.

The loader is slower from the previous pto driven pump setup but I can live with it.

Hope this helps someone else in the future.