430W 3 Point Lift Problems

[Derek Ga]

I have a 1959 430w row crop I am looking at buying for $2,000.00 Its in decent shape. The only problem is the owner told me and I have seen here recently the lift when in the raised position on the lower position it want hold the implement. Its like it hiccups. If in the raised position it hiccups and lowers the implement a few inches and raises it back up again. It has a slight whine to the rear end when it does it. What is it? A seal, gasket or ?????? Thanks for any help. I want to buy it im guessing its a good price for the tractor just a little worried with whats wrong. I don't want it to ruin my hopes.

 

[Hotflashjr]

First thing is to check and see if there is oil in the system and see what it looks like. Muddy color or being low may play into that. I would guess there may be another issue like possibly the pump needing to be rebuilt or the Touch O Matic system itself.

 

[Derek Ga]

We checked the oil in it and it has a leak so it kinda changes itself over a period of time. The oil looked fine as there was no water in it or anything. The owner called to tell me he had noticed how it was acting while working in the garden. So he wanted to be upfront with me. I went and looked it over again and seen what he is talking about. Even the John Deere man didn't have a clue. Of course he said it was before his time.

 

[Frank 41]

I don't know of too many of those huggers that don't leak or work well. I have had my 435 worked on and the guy tore it down 3 times trying to find and fix all the leaks. It still leaks just setting. Good luck.

 

[Hotflashjr]

My MT didn't work when I bought it. After draining, flushing, and new oil it worked but the pump needed to be rebuilt. I did that and then the TOM unit itself started leaking. I was able to get that all to stop after rebuilding that but never checked any of the pressure in the system. Mine also has a slight up and down twitch when it has a heavy implement on the back and is raised all the way up. Other than that it works fine. Something may need to be rebuilt inside the unit itself is my guess.

 

[Dave H]

Derek

I know exactly how that thing is. I call it the jumping tom syndrome. I have it on my 58 420 W.

Supposedly it may be the caused by a check valve problem.

If the 430 has a dual tom like my 420 - what I did while messing around with it for hours is finally setting the tom for individual operation and it turned out that the tom is now rock steady.

I supposedly do not have the total lift capacity as in the dual mode but it lifts anything I have with ease.

I bet you a dollar to a donut that it is not a pump problem.

Also where is it leaking from? If not visible from the outside like from the rock shaft seals then it may be transferring from the pump seal to the engine?

Another thought on the jumping may be in the draft control linkage. That may be isolated or identified by grabbing the linkage when it is jumping and pulling the slack out of it one way or the other.

 

[M-MAN]

The whine is the oil bypassing in the TOM under the seat. Could be it needs rebuilt, a valve lapped or adjusted or the quadrant just needs adjusted. Could be the wrong oil as well.

If I ran across a decent 430W for 2 grand I would pay the man as soon as I shut down the engine. The Deere service manual will cost as much as any part's you'll need.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Dave & M man are right on the money. MOST of the time this "bobbing" in the TOM system is a check valve leaking. It can also be gaskets & leakage past the rockshaft piston but most often it is one or both check valves. The way those work, a rod closes off the open center return port for oil coming from the pump back to the reservoir. When the open center return port is closed off, the only place for the oil to go is through the relief valve or through the check valve into the cylinder or cylinders raising one, the other or both rock shafts.

If the check valve doesn't seat 100%, the oil leaks back out letting the rock shaft fall. Same is true if the oil leaks past the piston seal. Either way the position sensing mechanism sees this fall and again closes the open center return port causing it to lift back up. The heavier the implement on the lift arms, the faster it bobs.

There are ways to check out which condition (leakage past the piston or past the check valves) is causing them to bob. They should be completed BEFORE taking the unit apart or off of the tractor because check valve troubles can be fixed without removing the TOM unit form the tractor.

Hope that helps.

 

[Derek Ga]

Would the TOM cause it to hiccup in the lowered position also? Even if its a very light implement attached to it? What are the ways to check out the valves in the TOM?
Thanks for all the responses. It has started to shed some light on this and make it alittle clearer.
thanks,
Derek