'52 8N Electrical Issue

[Jim.ME]

The stud with the battery cable hooked to it should have battery voltage. The stud with the strap going to the starter motor will not have voltage until the solenoid is energized.

If the original starter button is used it grounds the small terminal to energize the solenoid. Some solenoids can only be hooked up one way to work.

Can you test continuity? If so, test for continuity between the stud the starter strap is hooked to and the small stud that has the wire from the starter button hooked to it. If there is continuity between those two the battery cable and the starter strap need to swap studs so that the small terminal gets powered via the battery cable; the starter button will then provide a ground for the solenoid to pull in and energize the starter.

 

[used red MN]

If the original starter button is used it grounds the small terminal to energize the solenoid. Some solenoids can only be hooked up one way to work.

Can you test continuity? If so, test for continuity between the stud the starter strap is hooked to and the small stud that has the wire from the starter button hooked to it. If there is continuity between those two the battery cable and the starter strap need to swap studs so that the small terminal gets powered via the battery cable; the starter button will then provide a ground for the solenoid to pull in and energize the starter.

I agree, this expounds on my reply 16. Jim L’s reply 20 basically makes the same check with a volt meter.

 

[R Geiger]

I’ve tried to find where to enter the forum with my question, but I don’t see a clear way(?). Help!!

Front mount distributer, new 6 volt coil, new points and condenser. Engine operated and after trying to start again — now no spark again.

New carburetor acting now the same as the old carburetor - floats inside the carburetor will not stop the fuel from overfilling the carburetor (?).

Ken Sikora 1

When you are on this forum page, at the top right hand corner there is a link to post a new comment. easy peasy!

 

[bernieblue]

Not sure what you mean by "non grounded side of the battery". Would this be the positive battery post with the grounding cable removed from the battery?

 

[soaked]

"Non grounded side" only means the side not grounded. Does not suggest pulling off the ground cable.
Your 51 12 volt 8n IS negative ground--- right?

Here is a N solenoid.
Blue arrows point to the electromagnetic coil wire ends. One to the small terminal, and the other to the rear facing big lug. They should have continuity. ( maybe .7 ish ohms) The small terminal will show battery volts. (dont need to push the starter button, it's hot as long as the battery is connected up to the tractor)

Screwdriver showes the defection ability of the copper contact disk. (pic showes an "extra" contact/plunger)

When you got battery volts across the solenoid (between large posts) its because the starter post (field terminal) connects to ground through the field coils, and armature windings. It's a good reading.

 

[Jim.ME]

Not sure what you mean by "non grounded side of the battery". Would this be the positive battery post with the grounding cable removed from the battery?

Clarify for us, what ground your tractor is using. It was originally 6-volt positive ground. You have posted it was converted to 12 volts, but not the ground. That is why Jim L said the non-grounded side of the battery. Until you say outright which side is ground we are only assuming which it is.

As for your solenoid test in post 14, it is not correct. See the instructions I gave you in post 21. The single small terminal needs to show power all the time for the grounding starter button to work, that requires continuity between one large terminal and the small terminal. And the cable from the battery needs to be on that large terminal.

Edit to correct spelling

 

[Eman85]

OK, answer the question of which battery terminal connects to the frame of the tractor(ground). Follow what Jim and soaked have said. I am thinking you put the solenoid on backwards but that's just a guess. Do their tests and tell us what you get.

 

[bernieblue]

It's negative grounded.

 

[bernieblue]

OK Jim. You have figured out by now that electrons are not my strong suit and I apparently haven't given you a clear complete picture of what I have. The tractor was converted some time in the past from a 6v system to a 12v system. Presumably the original 6v system was grounded positively. It is now negitavely grounded. In the photo the solinoid is mounted with the small post to the rear which is the way it was mounted before I had the problem I described originally. There is a wire connecting the small post to the starter button. That's the only wire attached to the starter button which seems strange to me. I guess the small post gets grounded when the starter button is pushed The cable you see connected to the solinoid is connected to the positive battery post.
I conducted the test you asked for above. When I pushed the starter button I got a very strong click, a quick read of volts, and then no reading at all.

 

[Eman85]

Try and answer all of Jim's questions.
Does the small terminal on the solenoid show voltage all of the time?
When you pushed the starter button to make the click and a reading of volts where did you have the meter connected?

 

[Jim L WA]

bernieblue, because of the click when you pushed the starter button, it sounds like it's wired correctly. Did you ever clean the battery posts and cable clamps and both ends of the battery cables with a wire brush like I suggested back on Oct. 12? What happens is, a volt meter takes very little current to read volts. But the starter motor uses a lot of current. If the battery connections or loose or corroded they can't pass the current needed to turn the starter. Way back, when the battery cable shorted out on the manifold it may have arced at those battery connections and corroded or contaminated them.
Auto supply stores should have a nifty little tool to clean the battery posts and clamps. Shouldn't cost very much.

 

[Jim.ME]

OK Jim. You have figured out by now that electrons are not my strong suit and I apparently haven't given you a clear complete picture of what I have. The tractor was converted some time in the past from a 6v system to a 12v system. Presumably the original 6v system was grounded positively. It is now negitavely grounded. In the photo the solinoid is mounted with the small post to the rear which is the way it was mounted before I had the problem I described originally. There is a wire connecting the small post to the starter button. That's the only wire attached to the starter button which seems strange to me. I guess the small post gets grounded when the starter button is pushed The cable you see connected to the solinoid is connected to the positive battery post.
I conducted the test you asked for above. When I pushed the starter button I got a very strong click, a quick read of volts, and then no reading at all.

The small post on the solenoid is supposed to be connected internally to one of the large posts of the solenoid. That connection provides power to the coil inside the solenoid all the time. When you push the starter button it is supposed to provide the ground for the coil, which energizes it to pull the heavy contacts together inside the solenoid and operate the starter. The mounting base of the solenoid for your tractor does not provide a ground. This holds true whether the system is 6 or 12 volts and positive or negative ground.

I agree with what Jim L WA posted above, the click sounds like it may be wired correctly. Dirty cable connections can show power but drop out when a load is applied. Check/clean both ends of both cables and the attachment points.