6v to12v conversion

[Anonymous-0]

converting 2n front mount to 12v. looks like the bracket that mounts to the block won't leave enough threads on the stud to tighten the head down. do I need to remove the stud and get a longer one? If so why doesn't conversion kit come with one?

 

[gahorN]

Yep, I ran into the same problem with converting my 9N. The new alt bracket also is not well-supported and vibrates out-of-position. I ended up altering it by welding an arm onto it which runs across the front of the engine....resting across the front face of the head. This prevents the alt bracket from loosening up.

I can't imagine how anyone could install that bracket and still utilize the spark-plug wiring-harness tube. There's simply no way!

 

[Anonymous-0]

Whats the reason for converting it?

 

[Mark Pearce]

Lumpy,
He"s probably converting it to 12 Volt because 3/4 of the threads here are about electrical problems. And some folks like ME aquire their tractors with electrical systems all boogered up to begine with. It"d be enough to scare me to do something more modern.

 

[Mark Pearce]

T,
Most people just go get a grade 8 bolt but if a stud is handy git a stud. As for why it doesn't come with a stud in the kit. They cut corners and too cheap to throw in a dollar stud for you. Everythin is going down hill in this country.


Mark....

 

[Hobo,NC]

Ol me a nutter one that forgot to ask for permission,,,, you forgot to say may I,,, Their are a few die hard 6V nuts that will inquire about why, yer reasons to convert,,, They are hung up on the dreaded 6Vs,,, forgive"em you do not need to have a excuse. A 12V system will out perform the dreaded 6V system enny day. The problem is the dreaded 6V or 12V coil,,,, you need to post what coil is in the kit so the 6V nuts kin splain to ya how to protect it,,, That they kin do a find job on.

 

[Anonymous-0]

reason for converting - keep tractor at 80AC property 3.5 hr drive away. no power (yet) so can't charge battery iffin its dead & don't feel comfortable jumpin from car battery. Don't get to property very often & when I do I've got lots of chores like bushhoggin, cuttin wood etc. Don't want to spend my time messin w/ tractor. That's why I'm completely rebuilding 2N. Just got block from machine shop ready for new pistons rings etc. have new clutch, H2O pump and rear seals for rear axle (they now leak bad). Already overbored front axle support and made new bushing with marine brass, removed gas tank and cleaned out and am repainting all parts - not quite original but I like my color scheme and thats what count. When I'm done I'll try to post pics of finished product.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Yes, I agree that 3/4's of the threads are about electrical problems.....but they mainly involve a 12v conversion problems. If you read this board daily, you will see posts by folks who can't seem to grasp the concept of positive ground, can't understand that jumping directly to a 6v battery from a 12v battery is dangerous, that a 6v battery charger will not charge a 12v battery.......the list is endless. And yet, when faced w/ a non-starting 6v tractor, they jump to the conclusion that all of life's problems are going to be solved by a 12v conversion. It gets even more complicated when the tractor has a front distributor; lots of folks can't seem to grasp the concept of Ohm's law & the simple fact that 12v front coils of today are seldom "12v" & require some combination of resistors.

Bottom line.....a 12v conversion on a sidemount, if done correctly w/ a quality kit, is usually a "no-brainer" . It gets a bit more complicated on a frontmount, but again, understanding Ohm's Law & switching to a round coil will work. That being said, converting an N to 12v is simply beyond the ability of some folks. Cleaning grounds, replacing battery cables & charging a battery seems to be a better, if not cheaper, solution for the "electricly challenged", IMHO.
50 Tips

 

[Jack - Illinois]

Worked for me on 8N - is 9N set up different??

 

[OKDAD]

TC....Ignore the naysayers and convert. Just because Grampa lived with 6v systems doesn't mean we have to. The manufacturers evolved from magneto to 6v to 12v and in the future will probably move to 24v or 48v.

I believe the reason is to reduce the current requirements therefore reducing wire sizes.

Of course there is my moto: If it aint broke fix it until it is! :wink:

 

[Bruce (VA)]

"...don't feel comfortable jumpin from car battery."

Tip # 43, below, will tell you how to do it safely & w/o damage to the tractor.
50 Tips

 

[Anonymous-0]

Sorry about the "war". I was just wondering. He can do what he wants. Having the ability to jump start it with a car seems logical with his situation.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

"The manufacturers evolved from magneto to 6v to 12v and in the future will probably move to 24v or 48v."

Sooooo........do all of these 12v conversions need to go to 24v when the cars do?

Cars went to 12v primarily because of higher horsepower, higher compression engines. They will go to 24v because of increased electronics in the cars. The N remains a low horsepower, low compression engine & unless you have a need to run 12v pumps or lights, the electrical demands remain unchanged from 1939. Maintaining a 6v system is not just nostalgic; it is simply a matter of economics for most folks. Why spend $130+ for something you do not need?
12v Conversion N News Article

 

[Bruce (VA)]

You can easily jump a 6v N w/ a 12v car battery safely w/o damaging the tractor. Tip # 43, below.
50 Tips

 

[Hobo,NC]

3/4 of the problem,,,75%,,, you know that 12V set up is only masking a problem,,, best I kin tell by what I read here it will ruin a good tractor. 75 % of folks with a 12V set up are electrically challenged are you one of the 75%,,, electrically challenged,,,, are one of the lucky 25%.

I also here you can haft arse other systems,,, git by 75% of the time,,,mask the problem,,, Makes ya fell its a sin to better yer tractor.



Call me a sinner,,, I want the best and would only recommend the best,,, I know I can not mask a problem and make it last a nutter 50 years but if I do my best I mite make it last anutter 50 years. I can not believe folks would recommend a haft arse repair on one item then beat others in the ground for trying to better another system,,, were do they fit % wize.

Good thang we all don't think the same way are we all would B stuck with a hand crank.

 

[OKDAD]

Bruce....I respectfully disagree. The highest horsepower engines I know of run off of magnetos (Top Fuel). The '54 vette in my workshop is a 6v system but I would not call the Blue Flame Six a high performance engine!

I believe the driving force to move to 12v was cost and reliability. Required wire size for a 50w headlamp would be smaller for 12v than 6v since the lower voltage bulb would draw twice the current. Also voltage loss due to connection resistance would be less. But this is just my opinion based on Ohms law.

I fully agree that you should not convert to 12v to mask a problem. I am converting this 58 year old tractor because I like the fact the engine should turn over faster, jumping it is simpler, battery is readily available, and I can add a 12v socket to plug in my GPS in case I get lost!

 

[Dell (WA)]

OKDAD........actually the final driving force to 12-volts was 1957 Ford TRANSISTORIZED radios. Germanium power transistors (audio amps) needed 12-volts NEGATIVE ground. I was there........Dell, 1958 EE Grad

 

[Anonymous-0]

A solar charger would keep the battery charged.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Hobo, lighten up. It's the Holiday Season. You must be working too hard to understand that some folks have a different perspective on maintaining these tractors. You speak from the perspective of a person who makes his living working on them; I, and a number of other 'half arsed' sorts on this board, do not make our living working on tractors. Consequently, we are going to do things differently. As a simple example, I would not expect for you, a professional mechanic, to tell me that you will wash out my dirty pump w/ diesel fuel & it will be just fine.....and it will cost me $?? how much? No, you are not going to do that because you know it is a short term fix & that if I pay you money, I expect it to be FIXED. But, based upon the advice from another board member, a former Ford tractor dealer shop manager whom you know well, I did exactly that w/ the pump on my 1951 three years ago, and it works fine. Likewise w/ a 12v conversion. You are not going to charge a customer to clean all the grounds on an N.....no, you are going to charge him for the kit & your labor & it will start for a long, time. Well, not everyone that reads this board can afford to buy a kit. But, even the most mechanically illiterate can figure out how to clean grounds & replace battery cables. I've got three of these 'dreaded 6v's' and never had a reason to convert any of them to 12v....and one of them is still starting just fine on an 7 1/2 year old battery. And, I'm not a mechanic & do not claim to be. But, if I want to waste money, I'll do it on other things than tractor parts.

Merry Christmas, from a 'half-arsed' owner of three 'dreaded 6v' N's.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

OKDAD, the 12v was needed for the starting circuit on the higher HP higher compression engines coming out in the mid-1950's, not the ignition circuit. I haven't seen many Top Fuel dragsters w/ starters!

Don't worry about getting lost......the 10 gallon fuel tank means you can't get but so far away!

Merry Christmas! And, hopefully the OK in OKDAD doesn't mean you are in the middle of the ice blizzard.
50 Tips

 

[OKDAD]

Dell....Interesting contributing factor that I was unaware of. PNP output power transistors design would be simpler with a negative ground system. I still believe the higher voltage systems are more efficient.

According to my books GM changed to 12v neg ground in 1955 but the 54 6v systems were also described as negative ground. The radios had not converted to transistors and were still using vibrators and vacuum tubes.

Were all Fords back then positive ground before they converted?

 

[Hobo,NC]

Dang Bruce you got me feel'n so bad I think I will go give all my tractors a hug,,, tell the 6V ones I still luv'em even tho I don't like the way they sound when crank'n,,,,Errrrrrrrrrr a errrrrrrrrrrrrr errrrrrrrrrrrrrr a errrrrrrrrrrr,,,

I understand "different perspective" some well most want to git to the fix and back out fast as possible,,, they are not willing to do the first step,,, understand how the system works 6 or 12 dead are live,,, The environment it has worked in past or present

If we agreed on every repair then we would never learn any thing from each other. If a 6V system was what I worked on daily then maybe I would be a hard core 6V nut,,,

I very much appreciate some of y'all boys feel the need to preserve lost technology,,, I mite have the need to know what y'all know some day,,, after I have done the smoke test.

I am not mad at enny one,,, I like diversity,,, its the only to understand how the system works. In my day to day job I have to question every move i make,,, pay for the mistakes,,, course I know you understand some of that.

I remember going to git my marriage physical,,, doc had me off in a nutter room just him and me,,, I knew he had already had a good look at my soon to be wif a good look a real good look most would have had to took a arse woop'n for that look. Course he splaind to me how wimmin did not like six it was just to please me a thing of nature men have trained them to do. He went on to tell me how I needed to pat on the arse and tell'em how good they looked rite regular and to never never say the WHY werd. Well I did not take his advice and kin not git her to leave,,, I guess its my nature.

Most problems lie in the crappy arse 6/12V coils,,, cuzz I would not accept the standard pattern answer and question the proper way,,, did the test,,, Found the answer to the problem it took a year for folks to realize may be a pattern answer was not the answer,,, you have to werk to find it,,, cuzz of the diversity I quit try'n to push my thoughts on how to make'em live a long healthy life. If a man has got it in his mind to go 12 I don't think you are gonna talk him out of it by questing him as to WHY and the REASON,,, The cost are minimal,,, looks like a git in git out quick fix,,, KIT will fix all yer problems,,, what a concept,,, yep sometimes I look for a KIT that will fix all my problems,,, most of the time disappointed tho. If you thing reverse swap'n a 12 to 6 will have its own problems,,, I spec i would want to ask why and the reason altho git'n ahead by put'n it in reverse is the answer to most tuff problems.
Data must be managed to keep it from becoming overwhelming,,, I feel by asking why and the reason you back a guy in a corner and overwhelm him,,, he's already challenged now git'n challenged,,, if I were to take on the fight I would look into other ways to git my point across other than to challenge the challenged overwhelmed. Jessie James had a reason to sit with his back to the wall,,, I don't see the need to back a guy into the wall over a 12V question.
Merry Christmas to ya to and i mean it,,, NO BS