806 Diesel

[BudKaiser]

I pulled my hay king renovator for the first time with my 806. It starting getting about 3/4 on temperature gauge. Oil pressure when hot runs about 20 psi at wide open and about 5 psi at idle when hot. Tractor has a flutter to it ( I think fuel pump). I am going to replace worn water pump and thermostat. I am wondering about the oil pressure. Starts ok when temperature is above 45 degrees. I am going to put a rebuilt injector pump and injectors from a IH 856. Do yall think it will be ok to use like this. Probably only going to put 100 hrs a year on it.

 

[caterpillar guy]

You can use it if you want to make a junker out of one of the best IH tractors ever built. Check the water circulation. I have an 806D which has never been off the cold mark hardly, in the last 45 years plowing or putter work. Try blowing the radiator out probably full of dirt. Check belt on water pump. This could also be a cause of your starting problem by not fully charging the batteries if it is loose. Check air filter or change with a new one. For the Starting and flutter change fuel filters and bleed. Which pump does it have The RD pump or the roosa master. If the RD hold on to your hat. A new reman was 1800.00 and only place I found one was through Spencer diesel in Spencer IA I just put one on last spring. If you change the injection pump with one from other than the RD, if that is what you have it is a bit more involved than just to swap out the pump from what I understand. Oil pressure is low. I would change the oil and filter run and see what happens there. Then with a known good gauge I would recheck oil pressure. If still low I would look into the pressure regulating valve in the oil galley by the oil cooler. Could have a weak spring or broken one. If not bad then It is time for some oil pump checking or replace bearings on the crank for a start. Cam bearings can come later. Rods and mains can be changed without splitting tractor. Cam bearings need to have more involved work. If you go that far might as well go through it and know what you have. For the starting put a block heater on it will help with the starting till you find out about these other issues and much cheaper. Also will be better for the engine in the long run. Post back with results of findings.

 

[fastfarmall]

Have you ever flushed the cooling system with vinegar, i did that made a diff for cooling it,but don't use food grade vinegar, that's only 5%, i got some industrial strength stuff from, Home Depot, Drain the Anti-Freeze, fill with vinegar let it run for a 1/2 hour or more and drain it, but somewhere you don't care if it gets stained. it wont hurt the hoses, or o'rings. or gaskets, but really eats the calcium deposits! I also put in new soft plugs along the side of the block ! I still plow with it at plow days, runs nice and cool

 

[used red MN]

Worn water pump? That rarely happens unless you feel wear or looseness in the shaft or the pump is leaking in my opinion you are spinning your wheels replacing the pump to get it to cool better. Those have a cast iron impeller that will not wear out unless you run it for years with nasty rusty coolant. Here is a down and dirty way to flow check the internal flow of your radiator. If you are changing you coolant anyway. This will take 2 people unless you can kick the lower radiator hose loose with your foot and still be looking in the radiator fill neck. Drain the antifreeze out of the radiator, close the petcock and refill it with water to the top. Prior to the refill you should take the lower radiator hose loose and get it unstuck so it can easily be pulled off. You will watch in the radiator fill neck and your helper will pull the lower hose off the neck and hold it out of the way so the radiator drains freely. If the water in the top tank drops quickly like one of those pressure flush toilets the flow is good. If it drops slowly like a sink you opened the stopper on it likely has a flow problem. Barnyard has you covered on the oil pressure issue. Only thing I would recommend trying 20w50 oil to see if that helps the pressure if you do not find a problem with the oil pressure regulating valve. Do not tell the Tractor Vet I am recommending something other than IH 30w low ash.. he he!

 

[pete 23]

On the water pump, it rides on two single row ball bearings and they wear out quite often. Then they wallow out the pump housing so the rear bearing is loose in housing and still flops around. I don't think that is the cause of your over heating but might be. But with that being said, radiator is primary target for overheating.

Engine fluttering is another issue of course. It can be caused by late timing, either static timing or automatic advance timing and either can contribute to heating. I would take the timing cover off the side of pump and look for tiny little plastic pieces (coffee grounds) that would indicate failure of governor flex drive in pump and need of repair. Low fuel pressure from worn primary pump will also cause automatic advance to not advance fully, thus flutter or stutter.

You asked about an 856 pump fitting so I am going under the assumption that you have the Roosa Master pump as that is what the 856 has. Yes, it will fit and they are replacement pumps for 806 anyway. The timing is slightly different as it has greater auto advance thus you set static timing to 6 degrees instead of the 8 degrees before top dead center that 806 is.

Oil pressure gets more complicated because the relief valve is in behind the oil filter mounts and require a good bit of work to take out and inspect. You apparently have a gauge installed as the 806 originally had only a red light, so make sure you have a good gauge. Takes some really bad bearing to show that low of oil pressure at high rpm's.

And Vet won't get on you about low ash oil as the low ash designed for the gasoline engines is a totally different breed than any low ash on the market intended for diesel engines, if there are any.

 

[BudKaiser]

Thanks for all your suggestions. The water pump does have a lot of movement to it (when shaking fan) I suspect thermostat is stuck partially open (it takes along time to warm up).The oil pressure has me worried . One older mechanic says 20 psi should still be enough. I am just getting yalls opinion. I will put a lower pressure oil gauge on it for more accurate reading ( currently 0 to 75) Don't worry I will not run it for any length of time until I feel the engine is ok to without causing damage.
Thanks Guys.

 

[caterpillar guy]

IT book calls for 38-55 for oil pressure on that regulator. So a 0-75 gage should be good for that pressure since that would be about in the middle of the range of the gage. since those engines don't run very hot they don't warm up like your pickup does. Like I said in the previous reply they run just barely on the gage. This is even plowing or other heavy tillage type work in July. Don't move in winter. I've never had a problem with heat. I would start with the blowing the rad out. Doubt it hold a light behind best you can if you can't see it through the rad it's plugged up.

 

[the tractor vet]

Well they do and are suppose to come up into the RUN range while working , but loafing around they will stay in the cold range With a thermostat that is working . Been around them since they first came out with my old boss buying the first one here two days before the Canfield Fair when it first hit the Fair Grounds straight from factory . And my uncles bought his the weekend after the Fair and after running Howard's and that one i put a lot of hours on working the snot out of it . Plus they were both turboed with in a couple days after they were bought . No they were not M&W's they were built set ups done by another person that i knew back then . Yes they were turned up and would pull 5x16's in first high at 8-10 inches deep or more like we plowed at my uncles we plowed 10-12 , yea i know some will say that is to deep . BUT for taters we went deeper and yes the soil type was lighter in some places . So if your NOT coming up into OPERATING range then ya need to look into that while working . A good rule of thumb on a diesel for running temp is around 180-195 , below 165 your not getting good fuel burn and can cause cylinder washing from the fuel not burning complete , So i am told by Cummins . The new Stuff they run even hotter . When i went back to driving big truck things have changed from when i owned one . My old Cummins powered truck ran 65 lbs of oil pressure and ran at 180-185 and if left to ideal she would drop below the 160 degree level then smoke like a freight train for the first five to ten min. when ya started to work her and get it back up to operating temp and burn off the excess fuel layen on the top of the pistons . The 98 that i was driving now ran 195 to 200 and only 40 Psi oil pressure and would not drop below 185 at and all night ideal . The old Cummins on a cold night would turn the heater into and air conditioner and sink down to 120 unless you run it up to 13-1400 RPM then it would hold 180 . every Farmall Diesel i have ever run and owned will come up into the run while working even just running the hay bine on fourth crop on a day in the low 70's , BUT let her sit and cool down at around 650 800 RPM and she will sink fast into the cold on the gauge..

 

[dhermesc]

I second the vinegar treatment. I did use food grade vinegar but I also used a lot - both times on gas tractors. My 350 Farmall was so limed up that when I opened the drain valve nothing would come out. Removed the petcock and poked it open with wire and finally got it drain. Refilled with white vinegar and ran it on the baler for a few hours then spent a lot of time flushing it clean with distilled water before refilling with antifreeze. To be honest it wasn't at dirty as I thought.

I also have a D17 my FIL used and abused for years and the radiator had huge amounts of lime in it (using well water to fill). You could see the lime deposits blocking the holes by just opening the radiator cap. This tractor was running HOT when running a square baler and I was surprised it hadn't blown the head gasket. Son was running it and asked - should this be in the red -and the needle was pegged to the hot. Drained and refilled with as much white vinegar as we could get in it (3 gallon?). Ran it on a brush hog with only a little water and almost all vinegar and after half an hour it started running cooler - after 4 hours it was running in the middle of the operating range. Pulled the thermostat and drained/flushed and the inside of the radiator looked like a shiny new penny. New thermostat and and distilled water and coolant and it hasn't gotten past the middle of operating range sense.

 

[farmallron]

I got a 806 diesel new rad overhaul it and it will run 195 plowing and oil pressure is at 22 lbs ck everything all good I use 40 weight oil and get that when I 1st overhaul it and put in 15 40 oil it had 10 lbs at 2200 and o at idle like said ck everything and think else to ck

 

[the tractior vet]

On the water pump, it rides on two single row ball bearings and they wear out quite often. Then they wallow out the pump housing so the rear bearing is loose in housing and still flops around. I don't think that is the cause of your over heating but might be. But with that being said, radiator is primary target for overheating.

Engine fluttering is another issue of course. It can be caused by late timing, either static timing or automatic advance timing and either can contribute to heating. I would take the timing cover off the side of pump and look for tiny little plastic pieces (coffee grounds) that would indicate failure of governor flex drive in pump and need of repair. Low fuel pressure from worn primary pump will also cause automatic advance to not advance fully, thus flutter or stutter.

You asked about an 856 pump fitting so I am going under the assumption that you have the Roosa Master pump as that is what the 856 has. Yes, it will fit and they are replacement pumps for 806 anyway. The timing is slightly different as it has greater auto advance thus you set static timing to 6 degrees instead of the 8 degrees before top dead center that 806 is.

Oil pressure gets more complicated because the relief valve is in behind the oil filter mounts and require a good bit of work to take out and inspect. You apparently have a gauge installed as the 806 originally had only a red light, so make sure you have a good gauge. Takes some really bad bearing to show that low of oil pressure at high rpm's.

And Vet won't get on you about low ash oil as the low ash designed for the gasoline engines is a totally different breed than any low ash on the market intended for diesel engines, if there are any.

You will NEVER hear me say low ash for a diesel . But ya might hear me say WE ONLY use straight 30 weight #1 diesel . That ugly old 806 i have and had it now since 94 and last i looked showed over 11000 hrs now neither the head nor pan has been off just the valve cove ONCE . Eugen's 1066 i sold him back in 98 we did a water pump on his and a water pump on my 806 back in 2014 a week apart , on my second clutch due to pulling the center out twice now one clutch and rear end in the 1066 and just now Eugene told me the T/A is going to need redone , that T/A was put in before he got it as it was a dead for find out of Stilesville auctin . If this guy has a low oil pressure issue he had best be looking at mains and rods before he gets to inspect them from the out side of the block . Even as far back as 1977 Cummins was still telling you to use Straight Series three oil and not till 78 with the big cams did they go to the 15-40 and lowered the engine oil pressure from 65 psi hot down to 40 hot on the big cam.

 

[the tractior vet]

On the water pump, it rides on two single row ball bearings and they wear out quite often. Then they wallow out the pump housing so the rear bearing is loose in housing and still flops around. I don't think that is the cause of your over heating but might be. But with that being said, radiator is primary target for overheating.

Engine fluttering is another issue of course. It can be caused by late timing, either static timing or automatic advance timing and either can contribute to heating. I would take the timing cover off the side of pump and look for tiny little plastic pieces (coffee grounds) that would indicate failure of governor flex drive in pump and need of repair. Low fuel pressure from worn primary pump will also cause automatic advance to not advance fully, thus flutter or stutter.

You asked about an 856 pump fitting so I am going under the assumption that you have the Roosa Master pump as that is what the 856 has. Yes, it will fit and they are replacement pumps for 806 anyway. The timing is slightly different as it has greater auto advance thus you set static timing to 6 degrees instead of the 8 degrees before top dead center that 806 is.

Oil pressure gets more complicated because the relief valve is in behind the oil filter mounts and require a good bit of work to take out and inspect. You apparently have a gauge installed as the 806 originally had only a red light, so make sure you have a good gauge. Takes some really bad bearing to show that low of oil pressure at high rpm's.

And Vet won't get on you about low ash oil as the low ash designed for the gasoline engines is a totally different breed than any low ash on the market intended for diesel engines, if there are any.

low ash diesel was the old Delo 100 for the OLD DETROITS , During my coal hauling days running Detroits we went thru barrel's of that. every day you were dumping a gallon into it and by the end of the month ya did not have enough left for and oil change out of a 55 gallon drum.

 

[MeanGene1]

When I was a kid, 60's-70s gramps had two drums of Mobiloil in the shop- a 20-20W for the car & pickup, and 30 Delvac for everything else from the old REO and International trucks, all the tractors and combines- and everything got a pint can of M.O.A. additive with an oil change- gramps was superstitious about that lol. Those old REOs were limespreaders with OA331's, including 3 M35 6x6's and got worked hard driving through the plowed fields and engine life was excellent. Here's two '51 E-22's and two '53 F-20'ss in 1958, and a couple Chebbies. The '65 706D, the 91 and 93 combines, 340 Utility and 424 never had their valve covers off, no work other than maintenance- but religious oil changes

 

[the tractior vet]

When I was a kid, 60's-70s gramps had two drums of Mobiloil in the shop- a 20-20W for the car & pickup, and 30 Delvac for everything else from the old REO and International trucks, all the tractors and combines- and everything got a pint can of M.O.A. additive with an oil change- gramps was superstitious about that lol. Those old REOs were limespreaders with OA331's, including 3 M35 6x6's and got worked hard driving through the plowed fields and engine life was excellent. Here's two '51 E-22's and two '53 F-20'ss in 1958, and a couple Chebbies. The '65 706D, the 91 and 93 combines, 340 Utility and 424 never had their valve covers off, no work other than maintenance- but religious oil changes

View attachment 146359

Ya know people don't realize that ya really do need to pull that valve cover every so often and put a wrench and feeler gauge to those valves . several times when i got lucky to buy a 706 Diesel that had sever BLOW BY and NO BODY would even bid and i got a chance to Steal it i would get it home and first thing was to put the hot water pressure washer to it then pull the valve cover and find you could throw a cat between the rocker arm and valve stem . Cam lobs ware , lifters ware rocker arms ware and performance start to drop and when the exhaust valve is NOT OPENING wide enough the exhaust gasses got to go somewhere . ANd yes more then likely the engine has ware but getting that exhaust valve to open WIDE really does help . You youngsters have more then likely had nothing BUT HYD LIFTERS . Back in my day they were solid lifter and needed adjustment and when i went with a Roller cam in my 390 FE build light years ahead of what most were still usen flat tappet lifters readjustment was not required that often and ya get lack . My 95 Dodge 3500 service truck when i bought it was way off and had never been touched like it should have around 20000 mile and been PUT IN SERVICE by Cummins . Nobody does this and it shows . All my old customers once a year they got a major tune up including Valve adjustment.

 

[MeanGene1]

Ya know people don't realize that ya really do need to pull that valve cover every so often and put a wrench and feeler gauge to those valves . several times when i got lucky to buy a 706 Diesel that had sever BLOW BY and NO BODY would even bid and i got a chance to Steal it i would get it home and first thing was to put the hot water pressure washer to it then pull the valve cover and find you could throw a cat between the rocker arm and valve stem . Cam lobs ware , lifters ware rocker arms ware and performance start to drop and when the exhaust valve is NOT OPENING wide enough the exhaust gasses got to go somewhere . ANd yes more then likely the engine has ware but getting that exhaust valve to open WIDE really does help . You youngsters have more then likely had nothing BUT HYD LIFTERS . Back in my day they were solid lifter and needed adjustment and when i went with a Roller cam in my 390 FE build light years ahead of what most were still usen flat tappet lifters readjustment was not required that often and ya get lack . My 95 Dodge 3500 service truck when i bought it was way off and had never been touched like it should have around 20000 mile and been PUT IN SERVICE by Cummins . Nobody does this and it shows . All my old customers once a year they got a major tune up including Valve adjustment.

Well, you're off base a bit on a few things lol. I'll be 70 next month, hardly a youngster. And I very rarely do a build with a hydraulic cam- although I'm getting into some large hydraulic rollers. I have 9 427 FE's at present, which are of course light years ahead of most 390's. Just finished a customer's original 428 Cobra Jet with a SCAT stroker crank and rods, .605 lift solid cam, main girdle and partial block fill, and aluminum heads n intake. A half dozen solid rollers up to .785 lift, many solid flats including an original in it's original tube C8AX-D 330/600. I have FE roller rockers from Ford Power Parts, Harland Sharp, a couple sets of Dove HD's, and a set of T&D's that require a cut across the head to install. 4 Milodon gear drives, and a couple sets of Dove-Paquet PIE heads- (you may have to google that one) and a Paquet fabricated tunnel ram intake for twin Dominators. Three adapter plates that adapt a 351C tunnel ram to an FE. Also work at a museum full of original Cobras and GT40s as "The Engine Room Guy", showing a complete GT40MKII setup, a race 427 Cobra engine, race 289 Cobra engine, a couple of Gurney-Weslakes, a 427 SOHC, and a 255 DOHC Ford Indy engine. Spent several years working the engine in a 410 sprint car with a Shaver engine, and played with the World of Outlaws a few times- valve covers came off every week for a look-see at the clearance and checking for broken parts. Putting one of my 427's together right now (454 stroker with a 391 truck crank, welded and offset ground to 3.98, Arias factory lightened pistons, Crower rods) with a nice custom Comp .685 flat solid, ground with maximum taper and nitrided, mated with tool steel lifters. Pretty sure I have your light-speed 390 covered with a large blanket. BTW, one of my '62 Galaxie 500XL's is an original 406-6V car, presently running a 427 with a C6 and 4000 converter, and 5.14 gears with a Summers Brothers spool- kinda froggy. Everyone should try a ride in a big-block car with 5.14s

 

[the tractior vet]

Well, you're off base a bit on a few things lol. I'll be 70 next month, hardly a youngster. And I very rarely do a build with a hydraulic cam- although I'm getting into some large hydraulic rollers. I have 9 427 FE's at present, which are of course light years ahead of most 390's. Just finished a customer's original 428 Cobra Jet with a SCAT stroker crank and rods, .605 lift solid cam, main girdle and partial block fill, and aluminum heads n intake. A half dozen solid rollers up to .785 lift, many solid flats including an original in it's original tube C8AX-D 330/600. I have FE roller rockers from Ford Power Parts, Harland Sharp, a couple sets of Dove HD's, and a set of T&D's that require a cut across the head to install. 4 Milodon gear drives, and a couple sets of Dove-Paquet PIE heads- (you may have to google that one) and a Paquet fabricated tunnel ram intake for twin Dominators. Three adapter plates that adapt a 351C tunnel ram to an FE. Also work at a museum full of original Cobras and GT40s as "The Engine Room Guy", showing a complete GT40MKII setup, a race 427 Cobra engine, race 289 Cobra engine, a couple of Gurney-Weslakes, a 427 SOHC, and a 255 DOHC Ford Indy engine. Spent several years working the engine in a 410 sprint car with a Shaver engine, and played with the World of Outlaws a few times- valve covers came off every week for a look-see at the clearance and checking for broken parts. Putting one of my 427's together right now (454 stroker with a 391 truck crank, welded and offset ground to 3.98, Arias factory lightened pistons, Crower rods) with a nice custom Comp .685 flat solid, ground with maximum taper and nitrided, mated with tool steel lifters. Pretty sure I have your light-speed 390 covered with a large blanket. BTW, one of my '62 Galaxie 500XL's is an original 406-6V car, presently running a 427 with a C6 and 4000 converter, and 5.14 gears with a Summers Brothers spool- kinda froggy. Everyone should try a ride in a big-block car with 5.14s

View attachment 146478

View attachment 146479View attachment 146480

nice . Did ya use a 391 crank??? They just don't drop in it takes a bit of machine work but if you plan on cranking some serious RPM's it's well worth it along with if ya can find them G T 40 rods . while building my 390 we or should i say a friend advised that we have Mc Kay machine X ray the rods even though magnafluxing showed nothing . Four of the 8 new rods had defect's and three more times to get 8 perfect rods. . NOW granted i never thought of a girdle back then , not till i started working on DONOVINS . My 61 Rag top was run hard every weekend from FRIDAY NIGHT THRU SUNDAY till i got drafted . While stationed at Ft. Gordan i supplemented my PFC pay friday and Saturday night . One Good Old BOY asked me while setting up after i cleaned his clock three for three he asked me he said Yankee Do all them thar cars up in Ohio run like this . I told him Nah this is one of the SLOWER ONES God they were fun times . Mine was a tri power . The only thing that was NOT factory was the four speed . No fancy crome valve covers just the brushed aluim factory air cleaner . Best time and speed 118.23 in 11.56 . heads up against a 63 Galix 427 four gear he got me out of the hole and when i hit second it was all over but the shouting got him by two and half cars thru the lights . .a kid in Highschool his daddy bought him a brand new 63 Chevy Impala 409 convertible four speed . out on the Washingtonville road where we had a 1/4 marked off i got him three for three . I ran jahn's 13.5 -1 pistons fly cut for valve clearance 427 med rise heads with bigger intakes a crowler true roller on factory 1.76 adjustable rockers and setting out in the old garage there is a set out there Jardean headers , three holley carbs center was a 500 CFM two bbl with two 450 CFM out boards a holley dual point . intake was port matched exhaust ports were polished and matched heads were C Ced to 72 C C's . Rear end ratios on a 9 inch varied as i had several set up for when i was not playen and traveling i ran a 3.25 when at the strip depending on it maybe what strip it maybe 4.11 . 4.30 or 4.56 and just messing around 3.91 all detroit lockers . It did not take long to swap out a pig . Back then we DOVE to the strips and let things cool down and make changes in the grass / BIG truck ya could put everything in the trunk . supen/ was from a 61 wagon with two extra rear shocks added . traction bars were made from 1 inch cold roll bar and did NOT follow the norm as they were tucked up under going back to the rear frame not ahead you could not see them . I built them in highschool metal shop . the 61 was not just a go straight car as it would handle any road race on any road . I was wild and crazy back then and vary few would ride with me . at that time i was dating a girl two countys away and we set a FEW land speed records between her place and mine over the back roads late at night cutting cross country .

 

[the tractior vet]

Well, you're off base a bit on a few things lol. I'll be 70 next month, hardly a youngster. And I very rarely do a build with a hydraulic cam- although I'm getting into some large hydraulic rollers. I have 9 427 FE's at present, which are of course light years ahead of most 390's. Just finished a customer's original 428 Cobra Jet with a SCAT stroker crank and rods, .605 lift solid cam, main girdle and partial block fill, and aluminum heads n intake. A half dozen solid rollers up to .785 lift, many solid flats including an original in it's original tube C8AX-D 330/600. I have FE roller rockers from Ford Power Parts, Harland Sharp, a couple sets of Dove HD's, and a set of T&D's that require a cut across the head to install. 4 Milodon gear drives, and a couple sets of Dove-Paquet PIE heads- (you may have to google that one) and a Paquet fabricated tunnel ram intake for twin Dominators. Three adapter plates that adapt a 351C tunnel ram to an FE. Also work at a museum full of original Cobras and GT40s as "The Engine Room Guy", showing a complete GT40MKII setup, a race 427 Cobra engine, race 289 Cobra engine, a couple of Gurney-Weslakes, a 427 SOHC, and a 255 DOHC Ford Indy engine. Spent several years working the engine in a 410 sprint car with a Shaver engine, and played with the World of Outlaws a few times- valve covers came off every week for a look-see at the clearance and checking for broken parts. Putting one of my 427's together right now (454 stroker with a 391 truck crank, welded and offset ground to 3.98, Arias factory lightened pistons, Crower rods) with a nice custom Comp .685 flat solid, ground with maximum taper and nitrided, mated with tool steel lifters. Pretty sure I have your light-speed 390 covered with a large blanket. BTW, one of my '62 Galaxie 500XL's is an original 406-6V car, presently running a 427 with a C6 and 4000 converter, and 5.14 gears with a Summers Brothers spool- kinda froggy. Everyone should try a ride in a big-block car with 5.14s

View attachment 146478

View attachment 146479View attachment 146480

Well come aug. i will turn 80 and yep things have changed since my build as a TEENAGER in High school but back then during a Ford meet at quaker city drag way i impressed Ach Miller head of autolite ford . when i clean my friend and his 63 427 . i don't like the lime light and like to stay in the shodows . Once i came back from nam i really wanted to stay hidden i was not right in the head i sold the motor to a guy i knew down where my X girl friend lived She sent me one of them letters no guy wants and two days later not doing my job i got shot . the 61 was traded with a 352 dual quad and athree spped over drive for a new 68 Plymouth road runner and that car got me a job at a chrysler plymout dealer where i worked on the road runners GTX and cuda' and made then run better .left there and was offered a job as performance tech at a large Ford dealer and to take care of there two drag cars . . there we atended all the Ford tech schooling . yep i worked on the sohc , the bosses to a point that were allowed at the dealer as big brother was watching . My rag top was a heavy car due to the X frame . I left ford in 70 and took a job at a new Chrysler Plymoth dealership as parts manager , more bucks , demo's . stayed at that till 74 when i had my fill of the general pubic and went to hauling coal . stayed in trucking till 83 with my own truck with a wild built Cummins 855 and in 83 when trucking went down the tubes i sold my 4300 Eagle to a grain farmer and started the tractor repair working with NORMAL DOWN TO EARTH people and in 85 i got into the buying and selling along with the repair . I bought Dead row tractors and brought them back to life and even sold them with a warranty if they got a new T/A they had a two or three year warranty PARTS AND LABOR . never had one come back . Yep i am a grumpy old cuss but my work is OCD and the people i have sold tractors to went from customers to long term friend and kept them in the farming game when they were down and out . went from race einges to old tractor pulling engines built from dumpster diving for unrelated parts and made them fit and work . anybody can build and engine today BUYING PARTS ON LINE . Build and engine out of a trash bin and make it win . Not once but 7 times . Back when i built the 390 Crowler Cams wass just getting started Jhan's was a new company Wolverien also was getting started . Holley had been around a long time but now getting into more then just maw and paw four bbl/s or HD truck four bbls . The Holley dual point was NEW no vac advance with suction lube to the shaft . Fuel pumps y3es PUMPS were form a F 1000 with a 534 gas electric plus the 7 psi manual . In 64 we did not have summit or jeg's . We had small local shops some good some not so good . best in my are was ODDY's in Akron ,if ya wanted cheap gauges coon tails fuzzy mirror wraps curb feeler then ya went to Kerrs . I grew up in a town that was home for the BIG BAD DODGE of Bob Fredrick at Fredrick Dodge that sat less then 5-00 feet from the ft door of high school . We got to see the new Dodges he would get in for his drag car . At noon every guy was drooling over the new toy when they arrived usuall late march as we walked down town for lunch . Yep i drooled and got to know Bob extramely well over the years . My younger brother ended up buying the 63 330 Dodge and i 3was the one that did the frame tie in and roll cage . i did the rebuild on the 426 max wedge and the ONE time i put her down the track first pass i ran a 10.67 . not bad for and old coot how was a little slow on the light but we put her to the wood pushed her to 7800 and never backed off . Brother was NOT happy told me that it stopped making power at 6900 . Humm it was still holding the ft. end off the ground at 6800 and did NOT start to drop till 7800 when i punched second . I sorta miss the fun days .

 

[used red MN]

traction bars were made from 1 inch cold roll bar and did NOT follow the norm as they were tucked up under going back to the rear frame not ahead you could not see them . I built them in highschool metal shop .

So your traction bars counter-acted rear axle wind up by anchoring to something up behind the rear end? According to the physics I learned that would lift the rear axle instead of push it down for “traction” Are you sure this wasn’t one of your “slick ideas” that you forgot to tell us you had to abandon because it didn’t prove out?

 

[MeanGene1]

So your traction bars counter-acted rear axle wind up by anchoring to something up behind the rear end? According to the physics I learned that would lift the rear axle instead of push it down for “traction” Are you sure this wasn’t one of your “slick ideas” that you forgot to tell us you had to abandon because it didn’t prove out?

Actually, it works, if you put the bars on top instead of underneath- think about it. I did that with an old set of slapper bars on my old F250 Highboy when I was pulling it with a 427 that would twist the frame up pretty good. Class I was running wasn't supposed to have suspension mods, and they were on top of the springs out of sight. Vet, we could have some fun swapping stories- can you guess what this road's fictional name was in a pretty famous movie? There used to be Start/ Finish lines painted on it. Had to stop and honor it with the Maverick

 

[used red MN]

it works, if you put the bars on top instead of underneath- think about it.

You’re going to have to give me a diagram that shows how that works. When you launch the rear end is twisting the snout of the “pig” as the vet calls it wants to twist up through the floor board. So traction bars mounted under let’s say leaf springs pointing forward also want there forward point to go up. That front end reacts against its anchor point pushing up, which in turn on its reward connection puts downward force or pull on the axle, which transfers to the tires equaling greater down pressure for traction. If you have the bars out the back the rearward point wants to go down and acts on its rear most anchor point pulling down. The reaction on the other forward end attached to the axle wants to pull up, lifting the axle lessening the pressure the tires have for traction. Again, diagrams that disprove these physics are welcome.
All this and poor old Farmalliron in reply 10 just wants to know about the oil pressure in his 806??