821/4000?...pto question ....

[marlin54]

All you have for the PTO shift unit is the casting. You needed everything else. The easiest thing to do is buy the complete shifter and casting assembly which will have all the parts. A seller on eBay has the parts you need:

Item #365807037008, shifter assembly (4-speed)
Item #157254360857, shifter assembly (5-speed)
Item #365809596157, side cover

You will need the complete PTO shaft assembly too, which you already know you need.

As I said before, I think there is a bearing/bushing that goes in the front of the differential housing where the plug will be taken out, and there should be an oil seal there. Make sure the bearing is there after removing the plug, and install a seal. Easiest way is to split the tractor.

Disclaimer: I am not affiliated the eBay seller.

 

[marlin54]

so I just knocked the welch plug out and didnt think to look if there was a bearing...or seal....so tomorrow I will look...I did drain all the oil but some did not come out and when I was fishing around in the oil for 5 minutes looking for the welch plug I did not find anything else..
...

 

[john in la]

I believe every tractor has the PTO shift casting. It holds the bearing in the back of the transmission.
You will need everything else in the 2 pictures I posted above.
Like said by others buy it as complete units all in one bag if you can as it will be cheaper than rounding up all the parts on your own.
I think you are going to find out you can’t get all the parts into the shift casting if you try without splitting the tractor.

 

[marlin54]

I believe every tractor has the PTO shift casting. It holds the bearing in the back of the transmission.
You will need everything else in the 2 pictures I posted above.
Like said by others buy it as complete units all in one bag if you can as it will be cheaper than rounding up all the parts on your own.
I think you are going to find out you can’t get all the parts into the shift casting if you try without splitting the tractor.

Im not going to split the tractor...unless there is another way..I agree to find the housing from someone and use the JUST parts I need...I also believe that Ford from the factory even though it did not come with the PTO attachment they still put all the parts in the housing and all someone needed to add was the complete PTO shaft and the coupler...for the drive part ......and then they did not provide the rail or the stop...and the dentent ball spring and screw...and the you need to get the complete side plate.....untill im proved wrong that is what I think...because I should have a basically NEW housing and new thrust and seal bearing that has never been used ..why would I want to buy a used parts if I allready have new unused parts in there...
Someone here wrote me , and I cant find it for some reason....he wrote me and said "if you can see the shaft splines thru the round hole then you allready have the new bearing and snap rings ect,,,so I believe that...and he said I just need the complete shaft....the shift lever plate complete...that rail and stop..........I would also say I also need the coupler and detent...So yes your right not to try to piece it out ....but if I allready have the new parts in the housing why put used in? Who ever wrote me I think is right..
.Im past all that as I can source all the parts ...weather here in the parts store or other places....what Im concerned about is the sprocket omn the main shaft...I hope its not going to be a problem and if I had to remove it ......is it possible to remove the main shaft and slide it off without splitting the tractor? Im hoping the shift plate assembly witll ne be a prolem when im indexing the rail back and forth..thats my main concern as its very close but without a plate to put on I can tell...looking for that plate nowand when I find one I will be able.....if the main shaft was out it would ba easy to work on the rail ect...

 

[john in la]

The main shaft coming out the transmission has a slide coupling that fits between the main shaft and the rearend pinion shaft. You can not get it out without splitting the tractor.

Even if you could get the 4 bolts holding the PTO casting out the casting itself will not fit between the main shaft and the side of the case. It stays with the transmission with a split so then it is easy to get to.

The gear splines you are seeing in the PTO housing has male splines. That is the counter shaft sticking out the back of the transmission. The shift coupling has female splines on both ends.

You might be able to fish all the parts down in the case and into the the PTO housing without a split but it will be a challenge.

 

[marlin54]

The main shaft coming out the transmission has a slide coupling that fits between the main shaft and the rearend pinion shaft. You can not get it out without splitting the tractor.

Even if you could get the 4 bolts holding the PTO casting out the casting itself will not fit between the main shaft and the side of the case. It stays with the transmission with a split so then it is easy to get to.

The gear splines you are seeing in the PTO housing has male splines. That is the counter shaft sticking out the back of the transmission. The shift coupling has female splines on both ends.

You might be able to fish all the parts down in the case and into the the PTO housing without a split but it will be a challenge.

yes well ten I can forget taking the main out and just hoping the sprocket that has been installed for whatever it ran...wont be in the way of the shifting operation for the pto....and since I have the top off the seat I can put my hands right down inside to guide the new pto shaft with the coupler in place...I did pop the welch plug out today....I cleaned up that area and what I see is a sleeve /bearing and it is never been used..still can see the little round pattern impressions little cupsforoil...so I took the measurement of the plug and its 2.44 inches...I did not see a seal ...just a sleeve... Is the shaft diameter that big? ..there is no lip for a bearing to be pressed in and why would they have a sleeve and then a bearing ....maybe a seal and again there is no lip that I can feel to hold it...the brass sleeve that is allready in is what it should be running against the shaft....that brass or what ever it is sleeve has that pattern of shallow little cups where the oil lays in...so either the shaft is the same diameter 2.44 inches tha same as the plug or I dont know...as there is no way a 5/8 " seal unless pressedin against a lip woud stay in and why would there be a sleeve with cups for oil...that does not make sense..so the shaft must be 2.44 inches diameter then?.....

 

[john in la]

Let me try to clear this up.

The seal #2 goes where you took the plug out. It is 2.44 od.
Toward the back of the tractor there should be a bushing that is hammered into the case #3.
Refur to my picture above.
I can see where every tractor might have this bushing from the factory but I don’t know that for sure. It is 1.6 Id the same size as the shaft.
The rest of the stuff in the picture 5 to 12 goes on the shaft where it exits the tractor.
The shaft should come with the sleeve 8 already on it. If not just heat it with a propane torch and slide it on. It goes where the rear seal goes and gives a place for the seal to ride.

Your problem is not going to be the shaft. Its going to be installing all the stuff in the PTO shifter casing without a split.

One thing I just thought of.
Did your hydraulic section where 3 chain drive is have oil in it??
That section may need oil in it to lube the fast spinning PTO shaft. That will also mean you need some type of cover to protect it but your seat bottom may be doing that.

 

[tractorford]

to answer your sprockets question-

you can leave them alone they wont bite into anything and wont interfere

i left mine on there after i figured it was too much trouble for me to take them out or try cutting into them with a cut off etc- inviting more shenanigans as they dont grab anything i let em live as they had

 

[marlin54]

to answer your sprockets question-

you can leave them alone they wont bite into anything and wont interfere

i left mine on there after i figured it was too much trouble for me to take them out or try cutting into them with a cut off etc- inviting more shenanigans as they dont grab anything i let em live as they had

Thanks as I was hoping I would not have to do that too...just was not sure if when shifting the lever if it would be in the way..
So have you ever had your tractor pto out ?

 

[tractorford]

Thanks as I was hoping I would not have to do that too...just was not sure if when shifting the lever if it would be in the way..
So have you ever had your tractor pto out ?

i had thought the same thing about those pesky sprockets but theres enough room where it wont contact-

but if youre jonesering to have at them sprockets you could get a cheapo smaller cut off saw from amazon and carefully surgeon them off from the center mass, provided you wear a face shield so you get no metal flakes in your eyes- and put down a couple of rags so the shavings dont gunk up the insides around----

but i left mine on and my pto lever glides to and fro like it should-

unfortunately adding stuff to the derelict housing might be something of a process-- i wanted to rip mine out completely and replace it completely with a refreshed unit that had lived a far far far more peaceful existence but that unfortunately wouldve required a split- so i just refreshed mine with the gently used better pto fork/ball/detent spring/slinder rail- as the previous one had been one of violent provenence.