841 12 volt or 6 volt?

[Anonymous-0]

I just purchased a 841 with a loader that hasn"t run in several years. How can I tell if the tractor has been converted to 12 volt? I also want to change the distributor to electronic, what is the difference in positive ground and negative ground besides the obvious. Thanks

 

[JMOR]

Been converted? Look at generator/alternator, voltage regulator, battery, light bulbs, etc. Differences in positive ground & negative ground, 'besides the obvious'........I guess that would be none........but don't forget that obvious to one man may not be obvious to another man.
Factory gas engine tractor was 6v POS ground.

 

[souNdguy]

any reason you want to convert it to ei, other than just to do it?

ditto what jmor said. 'observe' the machine and see what battery, genny, and lamps are in it now.. look for other clues like coil voltage and any resistors present.

IF you go ei, you will either be getting 6v p ground, or 12v n ground.

soundguy

 

[Jim.UT]

As JMOR said, a gas engine 841 would have been 6V positive ground from the factory. A diesel engine 841 would have been 12V negative ground from the factory.

If it has an alternator rather than a generator, it"s about 99% sure it"s been converted. Yes there is such a thing as a 6V alternator, but they are very uncommon. No reason to go exotic just to stay 6V.

It is also possible to convert 6V to 12V using a 12V alternator rather than a generator. Some opt to do it that way to preserve the "original" appearance while still gaining the perceived benefits of a 12V system. If that has been done, a 12V generator generally has vent slots in the outer body while a 6V genny does not. I"m not sure of the purpose of the slots other than to let rainwater in to rust the innards.

 

[Dell (WA)]

Jason......you ask......"what is the difference in positive ground and negative ground besides the obvious".........uh? would you believe ground can be positive and negative at the same time??? (seriously)

You ask......."How can I tell if the tractor has been converted to 12 volt?"........would you believe count the water holes on the battery??? 3-holes = 6-volts and 6-holes = 12-volts. Simple, eh?

Then gitt'chur tractor running on POINTS FIRST; then think about electronic ignition. Surprizingly enuff, EI does NOT add horsepower. And didja know that $20 points will last for 10yrs??? Thats 70yrs for $140 EI. .......Dell

 

[Anonymous-0]

The guy I purchased the tractor from said he had problem with the points always needing attention. So I was just thinking ei might be more reliable.

 

[Anonymous-0]

The tractor did not have a battery in it when I purchased it. I will look at the generator-alternator and see if I can tell from that. Thanks

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 15:07:01 04/02/11) As JMOR said, a gas engine 841 would have been 6V positive ground from the factory. A diesel engine 841 would have been 12V negative ground from the factory.

If it has an alternator rather than a generator, it"s about 99% sure it"s been converted. Yes there is such a thing as a 6V alternator, but they are very uncommon. No reason to go exotic just to stay 6V.

It is also possible to convert 6V to 12V using a 12V alternator rather than a generator. Some opt to do it that way to preserve the "original" appearance while still gaining the perceived benefits of a 12V system. If that has been done, a 12V generator generally has vent slots in the outer body while a 6V genny does not. I"m not sure of the purpose of the slots other than to let rainwater in to rust the innards.

"I"m not sure of the purpose of the slots other than to let rainwater in to rust the innards."
Well, some other things too. Slots were accompanied by a fan, so the fan could suck chaff, straw, grass seed, dirt, bugs, air, etc. into the slots. Of course the air was first to stop due to plugging by all those other things. )^:

 

[souNdguy]

people with poor cleaning habbits generally have problem with points. for example.. using a dirty feeler gauge will cause a problem.

also.. bargain basement 4.99$ tisco points with plastic rubbing blocks will cause issues.

worn equipment will cause problems.. in other words if the dizzy bushings are clapped out.. you will get irregular point gap.. that's not a points problem, but rather a mechanical problem that needs to be fixed.

It's not uncommon to get 5-10+ years on a set of good points. Many of us here get that. I have machines I don't even clean and regap unless they need it.. I usually put new points in a machine when i get it unless they look good. I have -MANY- machines I havn't seent he inside of the dizzy in 5-6 ys.. and I'm in humid florida.

if you want to go ei, get her running like a scalded dog on points.. and then convert. keep in mind you will pay more for the ei that you will ever pay for points for the life of the machine.. probably more like 2-3x.. your call on the $$ though.

also.. if converting to 12v.. do it before the ei instalation and get it working 110% trouble free before the ei conversion. nothing quite makes it difficult to troubleshoot a no start than a combination voltage and ei conversion from a non runner. to amke it hard to know where to look.

soundguy

soundguy

 

[Hippie]

slots in a 12v gen are for cooling. A stock 12v gen will have a open face,and fan.

 

[souNdguy]

post a pic if unsure.


soundguy

 

[Hippie]

in less you put 12 v guts in a 6v frame like I did. Then you need to crank down the amps.