8n 2 speed rear

[Anonymous-0]

I"m thinking about buying an 8n Ford with what appears to be a 2 speed rear end. It has a lever on the oposite side as the PTO level that slows the tractor down so much you can walk along side of it. This appears to be factory. Does anyone know anything about this type of set up?

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 07:05:17 12/28/11) I"m thinking about buying an 8n Ford with what appears to be a 2 speed rear end. It has a lever on the oposite side as the PTO level that slows the tractor down so much you can walk along side of it. This appears to be factory. Does anyone know anything about this type of set up?

Almost surely an aftermarket Howard gear reduction unit. It reduces ground speed like a Sherman underdrive but unlike the Sherman it leaves PTO speed unchanged - designed for roto-tiller applications. If it is in good shape with no damaged gears it's worth as much as the tractor. If it has chewed up reduction gears - and many do - it isn't worth a whole lot as replacement gears virtually unobtainable.

TOH

 

[DollarBill]

Shifter look like the one in the photo?

That's the whole Howard assembly and like TOH stated, they're well thought of in good working condition.

Some mis-used them for pulling stumps which they were not designed to do - There intended purpose was only to slow ground speed and the PTO for tiller work.

 

[1951 8N PA]

There intended purpose was only to slow ground speed and the PTO for tiller work.

The Howard transmission does not slow down the PTO. It does not affect the PTO speed at all. That is the point of the Howard Transmission. It reduces the tractor ground speed without affecting the PTO speed, so that you can run a tiller.

 

[Anonymous-0]

How much do these units sell for? Any ideas what a good running, ugly looking, side distributor 8N with this unit is worth?

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 08:35:05 12/28/11) How much do these units sell for? Any ideas what a good running, ugly looking, side distributor 8N with this unit is worth?

A Howard in good condition sells ala carte for better part of $1000. An ugly 8N with side distributor and no Howard sells for about the same.

TOH

 

[TheOldHokie]

Ooops - deleted.

 

[Dean]

The tractor alone should be worth $1000 - $2000 depending upon condition, tires, etc. Add, maybe, $1000 for the Howard IF, and only IF, it is in good working condition.

Dean

 

[John in Mich]

Someone was going to make some replacement gears for the Howard. I had the info but lost it with the computer crash before the holidays. Anyone remember who that was and if it is still a viable plan?

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 10:55:48 12/28/11) Someone was going to make some replacement gears for the Howard. I had the info but lost it with the computer crash before the holidays. Anyone remember who that was and if it is still a viable plan?

That was me. Making the parts is viable but the cost is substantial - would cost me about $3K in seed money just to get started. The parts that fail are the two reduction cluster gears and the sliding shifter gear. I believe the failure is a result of them slipping out of mesh under load and/or being shifted while still spinning. Either way the teeth get stripped off around the edges until there isn't enough left to reliably engage.

1) The shifter is a roughly 4" gear with a broached hub and a ring of dentals on the face. I can handle the dentals and gear part in my shop but not the broached hub. Price for buying broached gear blanks to finish myself was $150 each in quantities of 10. Here is a picture of the shifter installed in the carrier plate - click on the thumb for a full size image showing what a bad one looks like.



2) Each unit uses two opposed reduction gears that run in constant mesh with the transmission pinion and the shifter gear when the box is in low range. They fail in pairs so you have to replace both. The gear teeth on the smaller and larger gear of each cluster have to be precisely clocked to each other to prevent the clusters from binding when meshed with the shifter.That in and of itself isn't too bad but the spacing between the cluster gears is too tight to allow milling the teeth which means they have to be cut on a gear shaper. My gear shop priced them to me at about $200 each. Here is a picture of what a typical failed cluster gear looks like.



So all in all it was looking to be well in excess of $1000 to produce replacement gears for a suspect design. I decided it made more sense to pursue a totally redesigned planetary gearbox at roughly the same cost. Still haven't had time to take it beyond the initial stages where it has languished for well over a year:



TOH

 

[ZANE]

Anybody interested in an Everette creeper transmission with shop made PTO shaft ????

I have one. Came out of a three cylinder 3000 Ford tractor. Seems to be in good condition. This transmission has a built in oil pump to supply oil to the gears.

Zane

 

[DollarBill]

The Howard transmission does not slow down the PTO. It does not affect the PTO speed at all. That is the point of the Howard Transmission. It reduces the tractor ground speed without affecting the PTO speed, so that you can run a tiller.

You are absolutely correct - And I knew that as I have one in my 8N. Sometimes my typing fingers embarrass me

 

[John in Mich]

Thank you for the effort that you have made for us unskilled. I would be interested in helping finance the project if there was enough commitment from this and other forums to buy gear sets. If a Howard reduction gear set in good condition is worth $1000, I would be interested which ever way you decide to go for replacement. Would there be any opportunity to recover start-up/set-up costs?

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 21:27:33 12/28/11) Thank you for the effort that you have made for us unskilled. I would be interested in helping finance the project if there was enough commitment from this and other forums to buy gear sets. If a Howard reduction gear set in good condition is worth $1000, I would be interested which ever way you decide to go for replacement. Would there be any opportunity to recover start-up/set-up costs?

Plenty of very skilled individuals on this site and I've seen some fine examples of that from you personally ;-) For now I'm just going to keep plugging away at the redesigned gearbox. It's well along - I just need to find some free time to finish it up. May have to call a temporary halt to the other fabrication stuff. You know how the roto-tilling questions pop up every Spring....

TOH

 

[R Geiger]

(quoted from post at 20:05:17 12/28/11) I"m thinking about buying an 8n Ford with what appears to be a 2 speed rear end. It has a lever on the oposite side as the PTO level that slows the tractor down so much you can walk along side of it. This appears to be factory. Does anyone know anything about this type of set up?

I have a Howard on one of my 8n's. I do not have or need a tiller but I use the Howard sometimes when mowing. It is nice to have that real slow speed when needed.
Some one in the past installed a locking pin to keep it in the disengaged position. It has some gear damage that looks like it was knocked into gear at some time, With the locking pin there is no way that can happen.

 

[Clancydog99]

I would be interested in this, if it would slow down my ground speed but keep my PTO up for use of my rotary mower. would the grears handle rough terrain? ie. mowing trails.

Scott

 

[R Geiger]

That should be no problem, they just can't take any real heavy pulling.

 

[R Geiger]

My post was talking about the Howard gear box, I don't know what TOH's planetary gearbox would handle but it looks like it would be a lot stronger than the Howard.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 22:38:06 12/28/11) My post was talking about the Howard gear box, I don't know what TOH's planetary gearbox would handle but it looks like it would be a lot stronger than the Howard.

Neither do I since I don't have one in operation yet :shock: It's basically a knock-off of the low range planeteries in a Ford C-5 transmission and that box handles a lot more than anything an N puts out. The proof is in the pudding however which is why I have to complete at least one of the five I have parts for and get it in a tractor under power. I've been stuck trying to find a setup for milling the planet gear cavities in the carrier. I think I have solved that so hopefully I can get one together over the winter.

TOH