8N Carb TSX-241B Vs TSX-33

[danbrennan]

Hi - I have an earlier 8N, built in 1949, with a TSX-33 carb(that I've rebuilt from time to time as needed - I've owned my 8N for 30 years). I saw mention of carb problems being solved, as I read through this site https://fordtractorcollectors.com/identify-my-tractor/tractor-id-history/ , in later 1949 8Ns by a switch from the TSX-33 carb to the TSX-241B carb. But the site didn't seem to really say what problems were solved. Would there be an advantage to swapping my TSX-33 carb for a TSX-241B carb? I've been thinking about buying a new carb anyway.

 

[deanostoybox]

' Would there be an advantage to swapping my TSX-33 carb for a TSX-241B carb? '
No. As far as I can tell the only difference other than jet sizes is the 241B has Marvel Schebler stamped into the mounting flange where the TSX-33 it is cast into the fuel bowl. The Tisco C546V kit has the 241B jets.

 

[jimtrs]

(quoted from post at 11:58:00 06/23/23) Hi - I have an earlier 8N, built in 1949, with a TSX-33 carb ..... Would there be an advantage to swapping my TSX-33 carb for a TSX-241B carb?

There are more knowledgeable folks about carburetors than me, but I believe the main difference was the addition of the Economizer Jet. This would help save fuel if you were running your tractor like in the old days - all day every day. I doubt you would see any fuel savings, I never have.

I've been thinking about buying a [b:41f9176505][u:41f9176505][i:41f9176505]new[/i:41f9176505][/u:41f9176505][/b:41f9176505] carb anyway.

A purchase of a [b:41f9176505][u:41f9176505][i:41f9176505]new[/i:41f9176505][/u:41f9176505][/b:41f9176505] Chinese carb would be a big step backwards!

 

[JMOR]

The first 241 had no economizer jet. Then there were 241A, 241B, 241C. C didn't last long, so I believe B is the one that is OK. 33 had all 3 jets including economizer

 

[deanostoybox]

 

[deanostoybox]

Stolen from 'link_disallowed'

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 16:48:07 06/23/23)
<img src=https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto157043.jpg>

remember when Tim P. put that TISCO stuff out there and didn't think it correct then or now.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

Yes, the TSX-241-C unit was declared obsolete and all kits, TISCO anyway, are made for the TSX-33 and TSX-241-B Models now. Original Carb Float mean value setting was
shown as 9/32, +/- .016 approximately. Later M/S changed the value to 1/4 and all FORD manuals after were then listed at 1/4. The TSX-33 Model used a knurled
slotted screw Main Jet Adjustment and the Throttle Idle Speed Adjustment used a thumbscrew to adjust. These were two major changes made on the TSX-241 unit. My theory
is this method would cause many burnt hands as you had to reach in to adjust. With the new TSX-241 adjustment screw you could use a screwdriver away from your hands
and a hot engine.

M/S TSX-33 & TSX-38 Carbs, note Main Jet and Idle Speed adjustment screws:

M/S TSX-241-B, note new, improved Main Jet and Idle Speed adjustment screws:

SERVICE MANUAL SHOWS M/S TSX 33 CARB & SETTINGS:

BRASS FUEL ELBOW & SCREEN ON CARB, STATES TO REMOVE & CLEAN OCCASIONALY:

CARB PM - KEEP SCREENS CLEANED OFTEN:

WHEN ELBOW IS NEGLECTED; A SEVERELY PLUGGED FUEL INLET BRASS ELBOW:

FORD TRACTOR/MARVEL-SCHEBLER CARBURETORS:

p/n 9N-9510, Marvel-Schebler TSX-33, used 39-49
p/n 2N-9510, Marvel-Schebler TSC-38, late 42 early 43, Industrial & 2N Warhorse models. Identical to the TSX-33 model except it had the double throw choke
lever.
p/n 8N-9510, Marvel-Schebler TSX-241, used 49 thru s/n 8N-276115, April, 1950.
p/n 8N-9510-A, Marvel-Schebler TSX-241A, used April, 1950 thru s/n 8N-313112, approximately June, 1950.
p/n 8N-9510-B, Marvel-Schebler TSX-241B, used June, 1950 thru early 1952. Added Econo-Jet.
p/n 8N-9510-C, Marvel-Schebler TSX-241C, used thru the end of 8N production, September, 1952. The TSX-241C was a cheaper version of the TSX-241B as it eliminated the
Econo-Jet. The TSX-214C would supersede all other models when serviced.
Marvel-Schebler model & (Ford Part Number):
TSX-33 (9N-9510) - thru s/n 260596
TSX-38 (2N-9510) used in 43 on Industrial Tractors and the Steel-Wheel wartime model only. Uses the double throw choke lever as a 2nd choke rod ran to the front
grille. Mid 1943 declared obsolete and Ford went back to the TSX-33 as standard 2N production ramped up. The TSX-33 carb was used up thru mid-8N production.
TSX-241 (8N-9510) - thru s/n 276115
TSX-241A - thru s/n 313112
TSX-241B - thru s/n 313112 up
TSX-241C - used on early 1952 production, cheaper construction, had no econo jet
but was superseded by the TSX- 241B unit that eventually also superseded all others.
Other Ford Carbs:
TSX-428, EAE9510C, B2NN9510A, NAA
TSX-580, EAE9510D, B4NN9510A, 600/700
TSX-593, EAF9510D, 800/900
TSX-706, EAF9510G, B6NN9510A, 800/900 used on early models
TSX-692, 310746, 601/701
TSX-771, 312778, 801/901
TSX-662, 310015, 801/901 used on mid-production models
TSX-769, 312955, 801/901 also used on mid-production models
TSX-765, 312954, B8NN9510A, 601/701
TSX-813, C0NN9510C, C0NN9510G, 801/901/4000

TSX-33 - 9N, 2N, EARLY 8N
TSX-38 - 9N/2N INDUSTRIAL & 2N WARTIME MODELS ONLY. Mid 1943, declared obsolete, reintroduced the TSX-33 unit and used up thru early/mid 8N production.
TSX-241A, 241B,TSX-241C - 8N




Tim Daley (MI)

 

[danbrennan]

Thanks for the pictures! It doesn't sound like the 241B carb offers much over my 33 carb. Mine doesn't have the thumbscrew for idle speed, so I imagine a previous owner changed it to the usual slotted screw. I don't need an economizer jet for the work I do, but I guess it doesn't do any harm. I imagine it leans the A/F mixture out in certain speedload conditions.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

Like I said, the throttle Thumbscrew and Main Jet Screw are no longer serviced and the TISCO carb kits for the N's only contain the newer, 241 slotted screwdriver
style and replaces all previous TSX 33 and TSX 38 models. I still like to see the original TSX 33 carb on a restored 9N though. I have one on my early 9N and have
used 33's on 8N's B4 with no problems. The 241 didn't get issued until late '48 early '49. All early 8N's used the TSX-33. The TSX 38 Carb was virtually the same as
the TSX 33 except it had the double throw choke lever. The 38 was used on the Industrial models and the '42 WarHorse model. Had to hand crank start so the extra choke
lever was thru the RH dogleg.

FORD-FERGUSON 2N WARHORSE w/TSX-38 DOUBLE THROW CHOKE CARB:

Tim Daley (MI)

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 02:48:07 06/24/23)
<img src=https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto157043.jpg>

Something is wrong with this photo on the 241 the E jet is listed as .076 it was pointed out to me that's wrong. I was told should be a .046, I went thru my stash of old jets their is no .076 all are .046.

 

[Ken-Ark]

It has been awhile since I have worked on an N carb and I don't remember the fine details . I don't think the economizer circuit had anything to do with fuel efficiency but more to do with the pressure difference when transitioning from idle to the power circuit since there is not an accelerator pump in this system .

As mentioned , I don't remember the details but there was a reason the 241B carbs won the race . With that being said the difference is probably not a deal breaker . If your TSX33 runs good I would be happy with that .

Any new carburetor you can buy today is not a Marvel Schebler , but a cheap clone that says 241b . A used TSX33 is much more valuable than any new carb . Years ago I bought a new $40 carb just to see if the jets and screws were metric or sae and if they used locktite on the threads . I see new cheap stuff assembled with thread locker and you destroy it if you try to disassemble it . It is still untouched on the shelf .

 

[Hobo,NC]

Hello Ken, this is an old post I just brought up a question about the econo jet in the photo. It was brought to my attention as I got bit by a .076 econo jet are its a big player with an issue I am working on correcting.

Merry Christmas

 

[JMOR]

posted before:

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 21:43:11 12/17/23) posted before:

Hello Jessie Merry Christmas...

8N9914 are 9N9914 are either .076?

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 13:18:54 12/17/23)

(quoted from post at 21:43:11 12/17/23) posted before:

Hello Jessie Merry Christmas...

8N9914 are 9N9914 are either .076?

ttps://i.imgur.com/qYthX5m.jpg[/img]

I'm not even sure how it functions, as the bowl vent openings to atmospheric pressure are so large compared to any jet sizes that it is not conceivable to me that it functions by altering bowl pressure. That leaves open the possibility that at part throttle there is adequate vacuum at that point in the throat to suck air and dilute/lean the mixture and at more open throttle, that goes away. ??

Had saved this from 2007:
Dan

02-04-2007 06:19:40
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Well guys - I am happy to announce I finally solved my rough idle running problems! After rebuilding the carb four times, reaming every passage with a copper wire, filing manifold mating surfaces, swapping manifolds, replacing spark plugs, pulling the front mount distributor off 5 times, replacing the coil, replacing the condensor, and a whole host of other smaller things spanning several weeks - the fouth time to rebuild the carb yielded the answer.

I foolishly trusted that when you get a individually sealed bag that has the correct part number and application stamped on the label - that you got the right part. Not so with my Tisco economizer jet. The center hole was close to .085" - WAAAAY to large of a hole for the 8N MS carb I discovered. I found this out because ANOTHER sealed bag held what was lableled as a late 8N idle jet and the hole was much smaller than the other sealed late 8N idle jet in another package. So I started researching what the correct jet sizes should be on my TSX 241-B carb and found that the econimizer jet should be close to the same hole size as the main jet - mine was double the opening. I was rebuilding the carb to fix the trouble the other three times, but putting the same jets back in as they were new. I found an old economizer jet in my carb rebuild crash kit (I never throw anything away), stuck it in my carb, and whoo-laaah I can idle down so low I can count the fan blades.

Tisco strikes again!

Thanks for all your help on this one - it was a tough one. Oh, and watch those aftermarket parts with a weary eye.

Dan

This post was edited by JMOR on 12/17/2023 at 02:01 pm.

 

[Hobo,NC]

I think Don B is the closes as that's the closes to the average in my stash, I did find one (econo) .033.

I order my parts separate and keep a good supply I never ordered jets as I use the old ones are round up a used one (that's rare). I keep one kit on the shelf as a back up are someone walks in and wants a kit. I opened it up today the econo jet was .076. The jury is out I think that's a problem.

Time will tell when I get another N in that needs carb work I will try the two knock offs with the smaller econo jets in them and see how they perform.

Spit shin and paint does nothing for me I just want it to function as it should. Thanks Buddy.