8N hydraulics

[timjcatt]

Gifted an 8N that hasn’t run in maybe 15 years, stored in a barn near Madison, WI. First thing I did was check all the fluids. Everything was up on dipsticks and looked relatively clean and normal so I thought I was golden. A little work to get the motor running but now runs pretty good, still needs some carb tuning. Once running I noticed the 3-point would not raise, it is in the down position. PTO shifter is frozen, disengaged. For grins I opened the fill cap behind the shifter (4 speed tranny) and nothing but milk. Fluid level at the filler cap is about 10” below the top, dipstick (now milky) reads slightly above full. Seems like the level at the cap would be higher? Where it is parked it is slightly nose down and tilted to the left. I know the back end is all tied together, I just thought there would be more in the front compartment.
So, I want to change out the fluid (going to do crankcase at the same time) but I want to get it on more level ground. Any problems running it about 100 yards to a level work area? Should I keep the position control lever down so the pump isn’t trying to raise the hitch with crappy fluid and do some damage? Any thoughts on if the milky fluid is the culprit for the 3-point not working? Or should I brace myself for something more? Is there something I can do to address the PTO shift problem at the same time? I have read lots of posts and looked at videos, but any thoughts and pointers, things to look out for would be greatly appreciated.

 

[John P.]

Engaging the PTO is what turns the hydraulic pump.

 

[timjcatt]

Okay, I feel stupid. I guess I’ll drain the hydraulics and see what I can do about the PTO lever, starting with removing the side plate that has the lever on it.

 

[Roger in Iowa]

Splines to engage pto and pump may be rusted. Remove plate at your left heel. The lever moves the coupler to engage pto and pump. Yes you need to change trans oil. Maybe flush with diesel. Maybe multiple times. Three drain plugs. Must drain all three areas.

 

[Roger in Iowa]

Do not overfill trans area. Full when to bottom bolt on plate with lever.

 

[timjcatt]

Thanks. What does “flush with diesel” entail? Drain, fill and drain? Or do I run the engine with the diesel in the hydraulics? What does the diesel do?

 

[Roger in Iowa]

Drain, fill with a few gallons diesel. Don't drive. Would get pump to work. Drain after running 5 minutes. See how bad diesel is contaminated with water. May add diesel again.

 

[timjcatt]

Thanks for the replies, Roger. Drained the 3 plugs, lots of milk. The middle plug drained a fair amount of water at first. Removed both side access plates, lots of sludge at the bottom, pushed as much of that as I could out the drain hole. Will the diesel flush break down that sludge or is there something I should spray in there to try and dissolve that sludge build up and drain out first? I know I should probably drop the pump or pull the top off for some deep cleaning, but I’m a bit hesitant to take that on at this point. Plus I’m working solo and just don’t have the time, tools and help right now.
So now that I have the side plate off, should that rail be able to be moved by hand (I assume clutch depressed) if it is not rusted up? The lever itself had froze up, a little Blaster helped free it up.

 

[John P.]

When I rebuilt my pump, I pulled the PTO shaft and side covers, then went in and dug out all the mud on the bottom by hand.

 

[Roger in Iowa]

You may have to turn the coupler to align the splines. Not necessary to depress clutch if engine is off. May not want to turn pto and hydraulic pump on until you clean the sludge. Others need to chime in on dropping pump first to clean before trying to run with sludge problem.

 

[timjcatt]

So I went out and started turning and moving stuff inside the plates by hand as best I could. Some things seemed to move freely and others, although they didn’t really move, did not appear to be frozen up, a little play in them. I buttoned things back up and when I moved the PTO shift lever it felt and sounded like it was engaging/disengaging! I guess I still don’t know for sure if the pump is working properly but that made me a happy camper. Do you think the diesel flush is still recommended?
I’ll wait to hear if others weigh in on the sludge before I go further.

 

[timjcatt]

Well, I just went thru a bunch of posts on sludge in the hydraulics. I know I should be pulling the PTO shaft and dropping the pump to clean, but I just don’t have the time and parts to get that done before I have to leave it for an extended period of time (tractor is 5.5 hours from home). So I’m opting for what someone called the “quick clean method”. Clean out what I can by hand, spray down with some diesel and drain to clean out more, an overnight diesel soak and drain, then fill with UTTF. I’ll run the PTO a little bit and cycle the 3-point a few times to make sure that is all working. I don’t want to leave the system empty when I go. I’ll order the parts I need so I have that all on hand when I can get back down to the tractor and drop the pump and do a proper job, just don’t know when that will be.
If anyone sees a flaw in this line of thinking please let me know. I have really appreciated all the posts and personal responses. My first tractor, has been a real learning experience and has been fun to work on, couldn’t do it without these forums.

 

[OldBlue61]

Diesel is fine for cleaning, though I used kerosene when I drained mine. Either one will work. Also, you can use 80/90 gear lube instead of UTF. Both are acceptable. I used 80/090 in mine and it works great with almost no leakage. See THIS post.

 

[Roger in Iowa]

When engaging pto and pump to run do at slow idle in case pump is locked up it will just kill engine. High rpm may damage pump.
Pump will run at low rpm to check hydraulics but can run higher rpm if pump is not locked up.

 

[Roger in Iowa]

I think you could even turn pto by hand with tractor not running and pto lever not engaged to see if pump is free. Pto lever is forward to disengage. Might have to put pipe wrench on pto shaft to turn.
Pto must be disengaged or you will try to turn engine.

 

[Non-farmer]

Also, you can use 80/90 gear lube instead of UTF. Both are acceptable. I used 80/090 in mine and it works great with almost no leakage.

In Duluth, if the tractor is used in the winter, 80/90 will result in a fairly long wait time when the tractor is started before the lift will work. UTF would be much more responsive in a Duluth winter. I'm probably 300 miles south of there. One of my tractors had gear oil in it, and it took a good 10 to fifteen minutes to warm up enough to use the 3 point. Very frustrating. I changed it to UTF and the lift works pretty much right away now.

 

[timjcatt]

Thanks, guys. After I had drained everything and with slide plates off I grabbed the PTO shaft and rotated both ways (override coupler on it) and in one direction it would rotate the shaft and I could see what I believe was the hydraulic pump piston (judging from my parts manual) moving back and forth. Would that be possible to see?
I plan on just parking the tractor for this winter (tractor will reside outside Madison, WI) but by next summer I want it ready for work, primarily relatively light work mowing trails with a small bush hog at our property outside Hayward, WI. It does have a Wagner front loader on it which I plan to take off but to keep around for maybe some light bucket work, but that won’t be a regular thing.

 

[HCooke]

"I could see what I believe was the hydraulic pump piston (judging from my parts manual) moving back and forth. Would that be possible to see?"

YES.

 

[timjcatt]

Cool! So good indicator the entire pump is not frozen up and probably functioning?

 

[timjcatt]

All flushed out and back together, everything appears to be working. PTO pump engaged soundlessly, shaft turns, arms raise and lower. I feel like I dodged a bullet but know I need to keep an eye on that hydraulic fluid for contamination. A couple of questions.
If storing for the winter, should I leave the filler cover off, covered but vented? Will that help prevent condensation build up internally with the cooling and heating cycles of the seasons?
And second, once I tightened down the bolts on the PTO shift lever plate it did not shift as easily and smoothly as when I just had the bolts on there hand tight. My sense is it needs a new thicker gasket but I was wondering if this is a not uncommon thing and there is a different fix that works well.
Thanks