8N not getting spark

[BigstarATX]

Hi I just recently picked up a 1950 8N. Trying to get her cranked up. I cleaned out the fuel system. No leak in the bowl and fuel is flowing from the carb drain plug. It’s cranking freely and sounds good. I pulled a plug and not seeing spark on the manifold.… the tractor was painted before the previous owner passed away. I am trying to get a spark through the paint on the manifold but I should see a spark in the plug regardless right?? Any quick check items you guys might suggest? This one has the alternator conversion. I shot a tad of ether in the filter and didn’t even get a pop like it was thinking about starting. Thank you

 

[BigstarATX]

Sorry guys….. I pulled a noob and posted this thread before I saw replies to my earlier one….. I tried to delete this thread but no bueno. I’ll be more patient in the future.

I’m going through the suggestions you guys made on me earlier thread. Y’alls expertise is much appreciated. Thanks all

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

6V or 12V? Front Mount or Side Mount? It matters. Does tractor start and run now? Incorrect wiring accounts for 99.98% of all non-starting issues. Get the Manuals and related documents. Read religiously and find the method for testing for spark in the archives from Bruce (VA). You have to verify and confirm all wiring is correct before you test the coil and for spark. Avoid buying new parts and replacing willy-nilly. Get battery tested at a shop.


Tim Daley (MI)

 

[wascator]

Basic checks will help you find it. Make surevthe points are not grounded. Check all the electrical ground paths. Check the coil; secondary coil wire should be stranded wire not resistor. Make a hot wire direct from battery to coil primary. Check condenser. You’ll find it. My last failure was a bad ignition switch; the direct wire revealed it. One before that was a bad coil secondary wire; a piece of bare haywire got me going.

 

[BigstarATX]

It’s 12V. Front mount. Tractor didn’t start when I got it. Thanks guys. I’ll hopefully get a chance to mess with it this week. Cheers

 

[wore out]

Basic checks will help you find it. Make surevthe points are not grounded. Check all the electrical ground paths. Check the coil; secondary coil wire should be stranded wire not resistor. Make a hot wire direct from battery to coil primary. Check condenser. You’ll find it. My last failure was a bad ignition switch; the direct wire revealed it. One before that was a bad coil secondary wire; a piece of bare haywire got me going.

''secondary coil wire should be stranded wire not resistor''

From what the owner has told us so far do we KNOW it doesn't have E.I. which typically REQUIRES resistance or suppression high-tension wires?

He said it's a 12 Volt conversion with an alternator, it also having and E.I. is not oiot of the realm of possibilities, IMHO.

Better to cehck and be SURE before making assumptions, IMHO

 

[used red MN]

Just FYI, if you are on a computer hold your mouse over your “Avatar” purple circle with a B in it. Your condensed profile info will pop up. In the lower left it says “Messages” with a number below it. Click that number and all your posts will come up In chronological order. The titles there are links to the “topic, discussion or thread” whatever you prefer. On a phone you have to click your username name instead of hover.

 

[560Dennis]

Check coil polarity,make sure it right

 

[wore out]

Check coil polarity,make sure it right

O P. stated it is a "front mount", NO way to change coil polarity.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

It’s 12V. Front mount. Tractor didn’t start when I got it. Thanks guys. I’ll hopefully get a chance to mess with it this week. Cheers

99.98% of all non-starting issues are due to incorrect wiring regardless if 6V or 12, front or side mount. Start with the correct manuals and documents and don't start swapping out any parts. Forget the s/n, means nothing really. Front Mount system used from 1939 thru 1950 are the same. Pull battery and have it tested. Leave aside and go thru entire wiring system. Front Mount requires the OEM 9N-12250 BALLAST
R RESISTOR in the circuit and is used on both a 6V and a 12V setup. Are you familiar with the early N electrical system? There's a lot more involved than just swapping out batteries. 9N/2N systems used a 1-WIRE/3-BRUSH 11.5 A GENERATOR with the ROUNDCAN CUTOUT (p/n 9N-10505) from 1940 til 1947. Are you familiar with this? Starter Motor was a 1-WIRE Unit and used NO RELAY (SOLENOID). The 8N Mode was revamped and useda 3-WIRE/3-BRUSH 11.5 A GENERATOR with a VOLTAGE REGULATOR. Starter Motor was a 3-WIRE Unit and included a RELAY. Wiring is different for all. With a 12V Conversion, the GEN, CUTOUT ,and/or VR are removed from the circuit altogether and an ALT is installed in place. Whether if a GEN or an ALT is used, you must have belt tensioning bracket attached or else you will never charge the battery or allow proper cooling.

Next, the Front Mount Distributor is the #1 most misunderstood feature on these old Fords. If you are not familiar, I advise to do more homework and research thoroughly before doing anything else. A tune-up is done with the unit on your bench. MANUALS all have the correct procedure for points, gap at .015" and setting timing is done by the offset tang on Cam & Weights. Testing is finalized with your VOM before the unit gets mounted back on engine and it can only be mounted ONE CORRECT WAY. If you don't know all this, advise you do more homework. Many have failed to mount unit correctly and end with a busted unit and/or a non-starting issue. Out of frustration they then seek to go to an EI setup and often end up with more problems. I don't muck with with EI - never had a need or desire to do so. Others with experience can chime on that topic. Start here with manual pages and PICTOGRAMS by JMOR with all the correct wiring sketches he did.


Tim Daley (MI)

 

[BigstarATX]

99.98% of all non-starting issues are due to incorrect wiring regardless if 6V or 12, front or side mount. Start with the correct manuals and documents and don't start swapping out any parts. Forget the s/n, means nothing really. Front Mount system used from 1939 thru 1950 are the same. Pull battery and have it tested. Leave aside and go thru entire wiring system. Front Mount requires the OEM 9N-12250 BALLAST
R RESISTOR in the circuit and is used on both a 6V and a 12V setup. Are you familiar with the early N electrical system? There's a lot more involved than just swapping out batteries. 9N/2N systems used a 1-WIRE/3-BRUSH 11.5 A GENERATOR with the ROUNDCAN CUTOUT (p/n 9N-10505) from 1940 til 1947. Are you familiar with this? Starter Motor was a 1-WIRE Unit and used NO RELAY (SOLENOID). The 8N Mode was revamped and useda 3-WIRE/3-BRUSH 11.5 A GENERATOR with a VOLTAGE REGULATOR. Starter Motor was a 3-WIRE Unit and included a RELAY. Wiring is different for all. With a 12V Conversion, the GEN, CUTOUT ,and/or VR are removed from the circuit altogether and an ALT is installed in place. Whether if a GEN or an ALT is used, you must have belt tensioning bracket attached or else you will never charge the battery or allow proper cooling.

Next, the Front Mount Distributor is the #1 most misunderstood feature on these old Fords. If you are not familiar, I advise to do more homework and research thoroughly before doing anything else. A tune-up is done with the unit on your bench. MANUALS all have the correct procedure for points, gap at .015" and setting timing is done by the offset tang on Cam & Weights. Testing is finalized with your VOM before the unit gets mounted back on engine and it can only be mounted ONE CORRECT WAY. If you don't know all this, advise you do more homework. Many have failed to mount unit correctly and end with a busted unit and/or a non-starting issue. Out of frustration they then seek to go to an EI setup and often end up with more problems. I don't muck with with EI - never had a need or desire to do so. Others with experience can chime on that topic. Start here with manual pages and PICTOGRAMS by JMOR with all the correct wiring sketches he did.


Tim Daley (MI)

Thank you brother. I’ll look over this info later tonight. You guys are great and appreciated

 

[JMOR]

O P. stated it is a "front mount", NO way to change coil polarity.

Not only that, but.....he would never see any difference in performance, even if he could reverse it!

 

[BigstarATX]

Not only that, but.....he would never see any difference in performance, even if he could reverse it!

I’m still in the room…… awkward…….

 

[560Dennis]

Got voltmeter .?
inspect the points contacts , might have clean them up With a point file . Are they opening closing making contact . Check that with volt meter .

 

[Jim.ME]

I’m still in the room…… awkward…….

JMOR's point had no reflection on you. A coil will generally perform slightly better when connected in the designed polarity. However, it will work either way and that alone would not stop it from making a spark.

 

[JMOR]

JMOR's point had no reflection on you. A coil will generally perform slightly better when connected in the designed polarity. However, it will work either way and that alone would not stop it from making a spark.

Yes, definitely nothing negative to BigstarATX.

 

[DN-N-TN]

Not only that, but.....he would never see any difference in performance, even if he could reverse it!

If you have the polarity reversed on the coil----yes, it will produce a spark, but the points will last no time. The arc absorbed by the condenser will not happen as supposed to, and the points will arc so badly they will last no time. 12V negative ground has the (-) going to the distributor and a 6V positive ground has the (+) going to the distributor.

 

[JMOR]

If you have the polarity reversed on the coil----yes, it will produce a spark, but the points will last no time. The arc absorbed by the condenser will not happen as supposed to, and the points will arc so badly they will last no time. 12V negative ground has the (-) going to the distributor and a 6V positive ground has the (+) going to the distributor.

Prove it!

 

[DN-N-TN]

Prove it!

The polarity of the magnetic field in the coil is reversed, and yes, it will still produce a spark, but the coil was designed by the manufacturer to function the way it is marked on the coil, positive or negative-----with the negative attached to the points (which ground) it on a 12V negative ground system or reversed on a positive ground system.

 

[JMOR]

The polarity of the magnetic field in the coil is reversed, and yes, it will still produce a spark, but the coil was designed by the manufacturer to function the way it is marked on the coil, positive or negative-----with the negative attached to the points (which ground) it on a 12V negative ground system or reversed on a positive ground system.

That bunch of words is NO proof that reversing will result in reduced point life.. It just isn't so without proof.